It is a pure pleasure listening to John McWhorter (and yes, I'm aware that I can be accused of racism for saying that, something at which I can only laugh).

The conversation was also more banter-y than usual. I remember my email to Mr. Mounk when I signed up for a Persuasion subscription; I suggested that the staff try smiling in their head-shots, rather than looking like fashion-magazine models. McWhorter's chuckles bespoke a good attitude toward the exchange of ideas, which some thinkers have claimed reaches its highest form in play.

I have a couple of questions that perhaps Mr. McWhorter can relate to, should he view these comments, or really anybody here would be welcome:

1. I have the sense that some progressives found themselves in a situation some years ago where they categorically denied that America had become less racist but couldn't find enough racist behavior on a national scale to justify that belief. They first attempted to align their belief with their observations by claiming that people actually 𝘢𝘳𝘦 racist but simply don't realize it, thus the Implicit Bias Test. Unfortunately for them, the IBT wasn't up to the task (inconsistent results, lack of proof that what was detected was actually racism...), so the next step was Institutional Racism -- ie., Racism w/o Racists. I'm curious whether that's a plausible reading of events

2. I've been asking in a number of forums, having failed to achieve enlightenment from Google and Wikipedia, for examples of Institutional (or Structural, and if they're not actually the same thing I'm curious to know about that too) Racism. And I mean as something other than the lingering effects of past racism or something that can be attributed to intentional racism (so no, redlining doesn't qualify, ticketing for "driving while black" doesn't count and the problems of poor people of all races don't count. And because this is the the Internet I will clarify that this is an earnest question -- possibly naive, but not sarcastic.