Eric and Eliot bemoan the shameful meltdown in the Oval Office between VP Vance, President Trump and President Zelensky. They discuss Vance’s ambush and whether he executed it alone or in concert with Trump and note that those who are blaming Zelensky for rising to the bait are objectively pro-Putin. They discuss Vance’s dark political views and they consider what Europeans can and should do. They also discuss Trump’s delegation of responsibility to others and his “Trump Gaza” AI generated video. Eric asks only partially tongue in cheek what the odds are on Trump declaring himself a god by the end of the term.
Robert Harris' Cicero Trilogy: https://a.co/d/fHShy26
Shield of the Republic is a Bulwark podcast cosponsored by the Miller Center of Public Affairs at the University of Virginia.
If the Russians planted the figure 0f 300 billion dollars in Trump's mind, isn't that identical to the amount of Russian assets frozen in Europe since the Russian invasion of Ukraine? Is there a plan by Russia to have a way to reclaim that money with Trump's help?
First time listening, I am new the Bulwark. Thank you so much for thoughts, wisdom and insight. Also love that you said 'book on tapes'.
Of course Trump knew beforehand. Please don’t give him ANY LEEWAY.
Just listen to Mary Trump when she talks about who her uncle really is
@jvlast and @saletan, thank you for this discussion. After Friday, I gave some thought to whether President Putin could expect the same treatment about Lend-Lease when he visits the Oval. I explored that here - https://open.substack.com/pub/gregflo/p/want-to-make-a-bet?r=vqlmb&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web, along with drawing some parallels about Lend-Lease and Ukraine Aid. Smart money says President Putin won't get the same treatment.
*These comments reflect my personal views and do not represent the views of my employer, the United States Navy, or the United States Government.
I could be mistaken, but your comment is in the Shield of the Republic podcast. Perhaps you meant to comment in the other podcast that was done by JVL and Will Saletan?
I really did not want to watch another discussion about the meltdown. What good would it do? But I couldn't think of anything else I wanted to do this afternoon. I'm new to the Bulwark, and have never listened to you two before. I'll never miss another of your podcasts.
Mr. Cohen, you said, "What does this mean for you and me?"
I want you two to know how much this meant for me. I have heard that those who study disinformation have found that though outrage does attract attention, inspiration attracts at least equally. Your knowledge, experience and sense of decency remind me of my father, a WWll infantry veteran, who would be suffering if he were still alive to see what is happening. I am inspired by you, which means that some of my anxiety about this horror is lessened. I am ready to continue my means of resistance, which consists of calls to my representatives and short letters to our local newspaper, in Trump territory, with facts, written carefully and on a 5th grade level.
Thank you so much. You made a difference in my life today.
Yes, these gentlemen have much wisdom to share with you. They have worked intimately inside government and applied that wisdom and morality that you hear to global solutions to benefit what we believed was the "American Way". I am in my 70s and can proudly say to my family that I worked with these men and others to help people worldwide, all under the banner of the USA that supported liberty and freedom worldwide.
We will answer the call and fight again in the way that we can, but we are getting old. So I want to make sure that you heard what they said. You need to get active and find your way into this fight so that through "right action" we can defend our country and families from those Americans who have announced that they will take it away from us. They simply ask, "When I fall will you pick up the banner?"
😳 Eyes wide open moment. Thank you! Keep speaking and teaching. We need your voices and wisdom. To you both and many others I say, “please show us the way! Lead us and we will follow.”
This is a BRILLIANT discussion and why so many of us are terrified of America losing our democracy!!! (It’s UNBELIEVABLE but here we are… ) Alas the Bulwark only notes the writers as “Eric” and “Eliot” - does anyone know their full names? I would love to read every word they write!
Eric identifies the duo at the start of every episode. And their names show up along the bottom. I watch the videos directly in thebulwark.com on my desktop. Anyway, they are Eric Edelman and Eliot Cohen.
When these two say these things, it's as bad or worse than we could have imagined. Yet, I see a lot of European articles trying to say it was President Zelensky's fault. A lot of people around the world seem very intent on burying their heads in the sand.
Thank you for your straight talk and informed insight.
(cannot confirm author)
"Ya know what? Forget the eggs. If I never eat another egg sunny-side or scrambled, omelette or poached…If I never have another egg and cheese on a roll from a New York City bodega…If I never again have another fancy crepe or souffle…all of that can go away and I’ll be OK.
Just give me back my country."
— Paula Collins
I meant the AP, not UP
I am now hearing a report that Russian media was in the Oval Office for Zelensky meeting, but not Reuters or the UP. Explanation was they weren’t supposed to be, but really raising questions about who makes the decisions about attendance at these meetings. Maybe should invite N Koreans also, since they have troops in Ukraine.
Part of the Fascist playbook is controlling/limiting the free press - hence blocking ABC which is a critical link to news outlets everywhere.
Zelensky was supposed to come to the oval office and say publicly “ Thank you sir, and may I have another? “ I heard little Marco try to say that we have to be nice to Putin and belittle Zelensky to get Russia to the table.
The Kurds in Syria
The Afghans that served America
Ukraine now with the memory of the 1996 nukes deal & US promises made.
Yes, the world has been watching & US promises in recent years might as well be viewed as toilet paper & treated accordingly. That includes us Australians tearing up AUKUS (or replacing the USA with Canada), kicking America out of Pine Gap & the marines out of the Northern Territory, & revoking access for American warships to Australian ports. This should be done until such time that Americans wake the fuck up & prove that you are indeed the country you have told the world you are for decades!
Since we're on the bad guys' side now in global affairs, I wonder how long it will be before we're providing Russia military assistance in their war against Ukraine. It really has gotten to the point of absurd and tragic.
Thank you.
I donated to United24 today. If our (corrupt) government has abandoned Ukraine, maybe we can help fill the gap with personal donations?
We need to get every organization under the sun working together in a coordinated effort! I’d like the opportunity to speak to you (Ben) and others about a citizens plan to stop the madness in a peaceful way that is a potential game changer to meet this moment. I am a nobody in politics. I am however a creative! My name is toni Childs, I am an Emmy winner and three time Grammy nominated recording artist. I have a vetted out of the box idea that is grassroots citizens driven I would like to talk to you, top constitutional attorneys for review of a citizens implemented petition state wide. So much work has already done. I am reaching out to the top former republicans like Liz Chaney, Adam Kissinger, the Bulwark, in addition to Midus Touch, Brian Tyler Coen, and other attorneys on sub stack. I am reaching out to top democrats like Bernie, AOC, Kamala Harris, Gavin Newsom. I would like the opportunity to share what I am proposing, and have your input and support to help blow this up once launched. I do not wish to go into detail in this public forum presently because we need to get our ducks in order. I hope you respond to this I am not a cracked pot or about waste your time or mine! The House is on fire and American people are experiencing Domestic Violence on a national level! I see a powerful path way! Thank you for your kind consideration of my request! Love an email to send you what I’m proposing. Please DM me
Also contact Eugene Vindman, now an elected Rep. for Virginia, He has supported the Ukraine while in Congress and is VERY INTERESTING.
Think he was a former Repub. A colonel in the military with over 20 years of service, he understood the Russian threat and heard or saw questionable things while doing work for Trump 1.0. His bio is at Vindman.house.gov.
Think E. V. changed parties, once"dissed", after testifying honestly at the impeachment hearing regarding "the one who weaves wildly while speaking", the one who bankrupted six of his companies in the early 90s, then magically received even more money.
Magically received more money, how exactly? Is there still a Trump tower in Chicago, on the downtown canal route? Might also pay to find someone from the downtown area who saw the Tower's occupants coming and going, say, a decade ago.
I'd been there around that time, asked who lived there, and was told "Russians and Saudis". The implication was they had bought or rented the luxury million-dollar condos in that Tower. Someone thought the noticeable ones of that description were NOT year-round residents, but "breezed in and out".
Would that be a way for the tower owner(s) to get "extra cash" from a foreign country without saying it was done?
The tower meant T. could have avoided the normal consequences of not paying back the bankers he'd taken money from, earlier? (Think he bragged to a journalist after the last one or two of his six bankruptcies that it meant he was extra-smart, could get money that he did not have to pay back. )
Only a guess--He must have added some sort of clause saying he would not have to declare personal bankruptcy, even if everyone else had to? Or...?
Looked for news of personal bankruptcy and found none.
Oh wow! I love your song "House of Hope"! I used to listen to it when I was a child.
"You and I, we're getting older now, you and I, who will show them if we don't show them how..."
Now I have a child of my own, and I hope he grows up in a better world...
Thank you for trying to make a difference!
You are so welcome!! I’m following threads of inspiration! I hope to complete the first steps of our initial draft and send it out to legal scholars. Fingers crossed
As an aside, I used to listen to your music a lot. Loved it. Listening now; 'don't walk away' indeed.
Aaaaaa sweetness
Has anyone seen the CNN interview earlier this evening (1 Mar) with Kurt Volker?
He was waxing professorial about how Trump must watch his words right now so as not to alienate Putin so they can get the peace deal done
Excuse me - Where was Volker when The Orange Beast was calling President Zelenskyy a dictator, when he has been disparaging him at every turn during the last few weeks, when he sent his emissary Bessent to extort Zelenskyy (which, thank God, he turned down)?
As if Trump were everyone’s fucking overlord!
What a wonderful podcast. I'm 82 but I will not give up the fight to save our Country, our Constitution, and our Democracy. When I saw the meeting with Zelensky yesterday, it was my worse time ever. This broke me. I knew that this was a set up for Putin’s benefit. Zelensky is to be honored. I see Trump, Vance, Graham, Rubio, and Musk as villians. They will not be erased from history, but they will not survive to do us in. We will have a hard road ahead, but it will paved with good Americans with integrity and morality. For the next 4 years, we cannot trust our leaders. They are evil monsters.
I am like you, I'm at an age to remember the '60s with presidents being gunned down in the streets, thousands dying in Vietnam, race riots...and then Watergate.
This is somehow worse. I am devastated.
I’m sorry, but Eliot Cohen saying that he is ashamed is a bit ridiculous. He should be embarrassed and ashamed for advocating for regime change in Iraq in 2001. Yes, let’s all remember that Eliot was a cheerleader for invading Iraq.
We’re acting like the bully now with Ukraine and Zelensky, and it is inexcusable. But we’ve been acting like the bully for a long time. And Eliot was leading the charge for it.
I absolutely see a moral difference between Hussein and Zelensky.
The U.S. still had no right to invade Iraq to execute a regime change. That action did a lot to undermine our moral high ground in the eyes of the world. And people like Eliot Cohen were advocating for it the whole time.
So, you see no moral difference between Saddam Hussein and Volodymyr Zelensky?
Why couldn't dems sell this utterly sympathetic, made for TV, underdog story of Ukraine? Seriously, Zelensky is Rocky...Putin is a villain from a James Bond movie!
Obama, Reagan & even W would have had us in tears. If Biden couldn't inspire, they should have found somebody who could.
Unfortunately, the Democrats still have a reflexive fear upsetting their anti-NATO left wing.
Thank you so much for this. Scary, shameful times but it somehow helps to hear you two discussing it all. Keep it coming, please.
“This one broke me”…..sums it up perfectly
None Dare Call it Treason
who gains domestically and overseas from weakening every American institution that protects and saves us?
It was so good to watch these rational, intelligent men after watching that debacle in the Oval Office. I have been resisting watching any actual footage of Trump because it just disturbs me too much, but my husband really wanted me to watch this. I simply do not understand the lack of self-awareness of these men! Vance is such a smug asshole kiss-up (patting Trump’s arm like , ”Good job Sir”), how can he not realize how much he comes off as a giant creep?? And Trump just sounded unhinged, yelling that stupid analogy about holding cards that Zelenskyy obviously didn’t understand. Just a big fat bully. You could not create more slimy villainous characters if you tried.
Villainous characters indeed! When John Byrne rebooted Superman in the 1980s, he based his version of Lex Luthor on Trump!
IF the Democrats could take the the mid-terms in both house could they do an impeachment? Understand Trump has immunity from nearly anything, but likewise, we ‘know’ he is doing some underhanded corruption and proof would be needed. Although it would seem breaking an oath, breaking the constitution would be some proof of being a traitor. I think SCOTUS did America a real DIS-service in their immunity ruling. Lord, please keep America near your heart.
Not likely that the Dems will gain enough seats in the senate for the required 2/3 votes.
Thank you for the emergency podcast. This is certainly an emergency. I am ashamed to be an American. I am glad to have work to do to distract me somewhat from the shame.
Donna D. Thank you for correcting me.
There are 3 special house elections coming up April 1. Two in Florida and one in New York. Why aren't we pouring every ounce of energy into winning those, no matter how unlikely that may be? That would give the Democrats the House.
If you look at the races in FL, they are heavy Republican voters. As a matter of fact, don’t think there are any Democrats in race. Would hope NY might be able to get D win.
On flip side, Democrats need to get game plan, identify some great candidates across the nation and get them ready for 2026. Knocking on doors, Meet the candidates locally, flyers, etc. If anyone can help, then volunteer.
There are Democrats in the race. I keep getting ads for them. And Democrats have had some success in special elections in the past (Georgia comes to mind), and should use the rage against Trump to at least try.
Florida's 1st Congressional District - Gay Valimont
Florida's 6th Congressional District - Joshua Weil
Yeah, in these off-cycle elections, it will come down to turnout. Can we get anti-MAGA voters motivated?
Here's hoping.
Thank you both for sharing this emergency response. Watching the "ambush in the oval" left me with a profound sense of despair. Reasonable viewers saw with their own eyes exactly what you described. There is no alternate version of the event. I was visibly trembling and felt sick to my stomach. I agree that humorless JD Vance embodies darkness, relishes it and is proud of it. Regardless of whether Trump was aware of the ambush beforehand, Vance is clearly responsible for initiating the attack on President Zelensky. Malice is his constant companion. JD's darkness extends beyond Ukraine—to women, to American citizens who aren't eccentric tech millionaires or Theo bros, immigrants, LGBTQ individuals, Brits and Europeans, Catholics, and podcasters with higher IQs than his. He's an equal opportunity hater who praises Orban's leadership as a role model. My hopes are fading that the US will survive this malignancy that has overtaken every corner of this administration and the Republican Congress. As of now, the sickness remains unacknowledged within their ranks and perpetually fueled by lies/disinformation offered up by useless weaklings like Rubio, Bessent, Graham, who - no surprise- have turned away from American values and democracy in fealty to a angry disturbed narcissist who will never be satisfied with the amount of retribution he inflicts but deserves nothing but jail time.
"...fealty to a angry disturbed narcissist who will never be satisfied with the amount of retribution he inflicts but deserves nothing but jail time."
100% agree. He is such a dishonorable moron. If he had any intelligence at all, he would be embarrassed. I don't like writing his name, but what if he had a proper title? He's a fake president. But Traitor Trump fits well, and it is not a lie as is his nominal title.
Thanks for this podcast — the things Eric and Eliot said are exactly the things that have been going through my head, and their admission that they were physically ill because of the debacle in the Oval Office is the same reaction I had. We like to know we are not alone, and this did that for me.
The sinister danger of Vance is something many of us are underestimating, and I think we will be unimaginably worse off if (as I think likely) Trump dies in office. Similarly, if he becomes such a drooling idiot that they keep him locked away and only wheel him out for photo ops, there is an opportunity there for Vance to seize power either under cover of the 25th amendment or simply as the Trump whisperer. The unknown is how the inevitable power struggle between Vance and Musk will play out.
I cannot agree that Vance is more dangerous than Trump.
First, there is ZERO chance that the 25th amendment will be invoked against Trump. Have you read the amendment? Section 4 says the VP and a majority of the cabinet members must send written notice to Congress that the President is unable to discharge the duties of his office. The Senate allowed Trump to staff his cabinet with a bunch of ciphers who have no independent power base, and who are entirely dependent on Trump. They will not move against their master.
Second, with the exception of Dick Cheney during Dubya's first term, no VP has ever exercised that kind of power within an administration. In the last days of FDR's and Reagan's presidencies, their advisers continued to exercise power in their names, keeping their VPs out of the loop. I see no reason to believe Vance would be an exception to this rule.
Finally, the thing that makes Trump dangerous is his cult following. I can't see the cult transferring its loyalty to J.D. Vance. He's just not a cult leader.
During the election, I told my friends that Donald Trump will be gone soon enough, but watch out for Vance who is lying in wait to set the stage for his vision of a Christian Nationalist country. Also, the pompous finger wagging! If that were a female VP I can only imagine the right-wing media/MAGA's characterization of that performance if it was done by a female.
So agree with your comment.
Thank you both for your moral and intellectual clarity. It's very rare and very much appreciated.
I wonder if the generations below me -- I am 81 -- truly believe and understand that Russia is the enemy we know it is. Sometimes, it seems that enemy is a distant concept for them. Nothing is real.
Unfortunately, Western leaders have been covering for Putin for the past 20 years because if they told the truth about his war against us, they would be required to change their spending priorities. Those who came of age after 1990 have never been taught to think of Russia as an enemy.
Russia could have been the first among equals in a European system. It could have been a relatively modern and democratic country. Putin and his Kleptocrats cut that off to have power, money and to focus on rebuilding the Russian Empire.
Everyone is talking about how disgraceful Trump and Vance were, but we knew that already. It should not come as a surprise to anyone that they are vindictive, sadistic bullies and acted accordingly. Dictators align themselves with other dictators, not democracies. Rubio is the real villain in this because he knows better. He knows what he is doing is wrong. He looks like a hostage dissociating from his current state of captivity. What is the end goal here? He sold his soul for…what, exactly? A cabinet position within the most corrupt and vindictive administration in history? What dirt could Trump and his minions have on Rubio that is so bad for him to compromise himself to this extent? He was supposed to be the one “sane” cabinet pick, but he may as well be Marjorie Taylor Greene. What difference does it make? And don’t get me started on Lindsey Graham. He has no official cabinet position and he’s still simping for Trump. I’d say they should be ashamed of themselves, but if they were capable of shame, they wouldn’t be doing what they’re doing. Instead, we are the ones who are burdened with feelings of shame and embarrassment on their behalf.
I think Traitor Trump appointed Rubio as an act of retribution against him. "You are Secretary of State and you will have no say in anything. You will just defend my indefensible decisions." Rubio is too dumb or vain to realize it. He should have resigned yesterday.
When I saw the word "simping" I thought perhaps you intended to write "pimping." Both are correct.
Excellent take on what happened in the Oval Office and how shameful it was for our country. We are in the hands of madmen so yes....time for the posters.
I have seen too many pundits respond that Zelensky 'made a mistake' and that he 'should just have kisses the ring' and that he didn't have the same 'diplomatic skills as Marcron and Starmer'.
I think people who say that are naive about Trump and disrespectful towards Zelensky.
Thank you so much for your excellent discussion and analysis and for being clear eyed and truthful.
Dark as things look, I definitely felt less enraged after listening to your calm discussion.
Those other leaders can afford to kiss up to Trump because their countries are not at war. Zelensky, as a wartime president, cannot afford to appear weak.
Those pundits are so wrong. Vance may have staged this as a PR stunt, but Zelenskyy resisting made them look like bullies and villains. One of Vance’s big problems is that he thinks he’s smarter than he actually is.
I particularly appreciated the call these gentlemen made for moral lucidity in the face of eviil. Notwithstanding the demonization prevalent in a polarized country, I don't believe most Americans are used to thinking about their elected leadership as evil people, but with Trump, Vance, and many of their acolytes that is what we are facing. They are also deeply un-American, and decent people have to realize this and rise to the challenge of resisting them
I don’t know how people work in politics or political journalism without losing their minds. God bless.
Where are Bush, Clinton, and Obama? Our country is hemorrhaging and they are silent. Now is not the time to adhere to tradition, we need their voices.
Susan, I know that you did not ask where Bush, Clinton, and Obama (s) are as a rhetorical question. Nor am I. Why have they remained silent?
"live in truth." Yes, thank you.
Well I started Imperium on Audible this am. I’m already hooked. One good thing came out of yesterday.
I'll bet those tiny hands were throwing ketchup last night in a blind rage
Eric I love you. You underestimate the erosion of understanding that the American people are in the depths of, and the distance from the truth many people are. There is massive amounts of fear mongering and Russian propaganda circulating out there. Some have expressed happiness that Zelenskyy was “exposed for what he is” yesterday. The internet is our biggest problem to solve before we can reliably persuade people to care.
this podcast was a salve I needed, a validation of what I saw yesterday, I am both fearful and sure that political violence is brewing and in a land with so many guns, are we heading for military involvement, martial law, postponement of elections until the apparatus can be corrupted and controlled, the parade of horribles is real
To look for our pony as will would say. Europe will fully stand against the US passively and support Ukraine
There is no Republican Party. We Americans cannot trust our government any longer, so absolutely Europe cannot. If Canada is to be bullied by these people, then Europe cannot have any assurances that we will treat them honorably.
Thank you
Eric, you are right. This IS a test, and we are mad. This one did break through. You have not misjudged the American public….this will stick in their craw. But we need to act with courage. And fast. Our congressional leaders will not do the right thing unless we tell them how we feel and act. Call your congressional reps, your governors, etc. Get out this weekend and protest at your state capitols. Do what you can.
I'm struggling to find the words to express how disgusted and angry I am at the despicable spectacle that Trump and Vance put on display for the whole world to see yesterday.
It was obviously a setup, planned for the cameras, to strong-arm Zelenskyy, please Putin, and feed red meat to the MAGA base. The fact that Ukraine's freedom and human lives are directly at stake matters not to our malignant narcissist, sociopath President. In the balance, USA's reputation as "defender of the free world" is cavalierly tossed aside like popcorn.
I hope that there are still enough Americans who remember and understand history and who are willing to speak out, demonstrate, and in every way possible, make it clear that the Trump's capitulation to Putin will be disastrous to America's national security and that we will not accept it.
I guess this is pretty crude, but we can all see who had the balls in that room. Down with bullies! Up with Democracy!
Trump said it "made great TV"? You know what would have made really great TV? If little Marco had interrupted, and said "with all due respect, Mr. Vice President, please show some respect to our guest and ally President Zelenskyy, and admit that yes, President Zelenskyy has repeatedly thanked the American people, yes, he has repeatedly thanked Trump, and please stop insulting and lying about our guest who is leading Ukraine in a fight against an evil and cruel dictator. Perhaps you and President Trump should thank our guest, who has been protecting the West against Russian aggression for the last three years".
TV ratings would have gone through the roof and Marco would have regained a sliver of the soul he used to have before he sold it down the river for a worthless piece of paper that has the words "Secretary of State" on it. Unfortunately Marco is too vile for that, he'd rather keep his fancy title while he crawls on all fours and wags his tail at Trump.
Marco looked like he was getting an enama with a Christmas tree.
Have you seen the part where the OAN guy is asking Zelensky why he didn't where a suit? Marco's grayish yellow skin tone made me think he was about to vomit. He must be loving his life right now.
He has the agency to quit, so I do not feel any sympathy for him at all. What a spineless and corrupt person he is. I am pretty good at catstrophizing and even I did not think it was going to get this bad this fast.
Agree 100%
and Who the hell does vance think he is, to ambush publically President Zelensky.
trump , not vance, is Zelensky's peer.
The offices are peer offices, the men are not. Trump is nearly in the same species.
It was an interesting display on Vance’s part. Considering he grew up with family suffering with addiction, his behavior belied his upbringing. In these households people lie, cover up, take sides, gaslight. Seems like he learned how to integrate these behaviors into his core.
Vance is evil incarnate. At least Trump has the excuse that he's mentally ill. Vance knows better and yet does it anyway, simply to further his ambition. Unfortunately for JD, everything that Trump touches dies, so the pact he made with the devil to convert himself into a Trumpist will destroy him in the end. He's not going to be Trump's successor - Trump (and Vance's hubris) will be the cause of his downfall.
NB: The Associated Press, the CBC, ABC (🇦🇺), and every English-language media account out of Ukraine I have seen—including the Ukrainian president's X account—spell his surname Zelenskyy.
There are different transliteration systems for going from the Cyrillic alphabet to the Latin alphabet. Some go for a letter-to-letter transliteration that allows you to work backwards from the English spelling to the Ukrainian spelling, while others just go for a spelling that elicits the correct pronunciation from an English speaker. (This is the universal problem of transliteration.) I used to have a search routine that allowed for about 15 different English spellings of the name of Patriarch Aleksiy II.
Yes, certainly so! The German transliteration is Selenskyj.
I meant to emphasize usage. I encourage U.S. media to follow the AP and Ukrainian media.
Dear President Zelensky,
I am sick at heart after viewing you on TV with our bully of a president and his manipulative VP. Please know that you were set up. You were right not to sign anything with this country. The small men and all those involved in the 2025 plot to undo our country cannot be trusted. Putin and Trump already had a plan for the outcome of the war that Putin started. No matter what you did or said would have taken their plan off the table. You know that now. And so do we. President Zelensky, you have our admiration for everything you have done to keep your country a democracy, something Trump and his cronies have no use for. I will pray for you and use my voice to object to the plan between Russia and Trump.
If a few weaselly geriatric Republican legislators had the “cajones” of the young president of Ukraine we would still have some hope. Like that will ever happen. High fives to Zelensky!
JD Vance is SICK person.👹. Lindsay Graham go away and stop humiliating yourself and the US. Trump, those who voted for you are not well. You told us....WTF why didn't people listen?? VOTE them out. CALL your CONGRESS PERSON. Do your job and protect UKRAINE 🇺🇦. This should not be who we are😡
Is it possible that the US is now a satellite state of Russia? And, now that the US has abandoned it's cyber security efforts against Russia, are the five eyes partners' intelligence systems under threat too or are the systems physically separate?
The systems are physically separate. The US government's secure computer systems are not even connected to the internet.
Thank heavens for that. Thank-you for answering. I dread to think how Pine Gap is being used at the moment.
I was surprised by Eric’s reference to an “allied nation.” We have allies? We shouldn’t …
These people are garbage, nasty, fat fuckers. Pieces of shit. Garbage. Weaklings. Vermin. In need of eradication. Evil fuckers. Worms. We'd better start arming up, 'cause these people are nuts. Start targeting the propaganda systems with messaging--it's all fake news. Wake'em up. Wake'em up. Wake'em up. The American people need to know what's REALLY going on with clear eyes.
Who needs nuclear weapons when social media can bring down entire civilizations.
Well said. That should be a bumper sticker.
Brace yourself. It will get worse. We have a president who worships dictators. We have a series of propaganda outlets that justify every horrible thing he does. Americans don’t know truths from falsehoods. The private sector, the courts, the congress, and the media have all bended the knee. We don’t have any checks and balances left.
The only check we have is the American people. Until there are enough of us to resist the relentless manipulation and falsehoods being peddled to us everyday, this is now who we are to the world- a petty, materialistic, distracted, vindictive, naive, and self-absorbed country that only cares about ourselves.
It's sad that not even this will likely be enough to snap Republican voters out of the partisan hypnosis. This political party is a disgrace to America.
Republican voters will break with Trump only if they are acquainted with reality by someone they respect, such as Fox News or a group of at least half a dozen senators. At the moment, that doesn't seem to be happening. And it is unlikely to happen until they perceive the potential to move their viewers/voters. So, we're waiting for the first mover.
Luv their analysis. I share their shame.
Ashamed is a poor description of how I feel about the country I love right now.
Agree, except I don't love this country anymore. Since 2015 it's more like being on the receiving end of an abusive relationship.
I agree. At this point it's like, what's to love? The past?
Sound familiar?
“My chief endeavour has been to rid our relations with France of all trace of ill will... I have always expressed to France my desire to bury forever our ancient enmity... I have devoted no less effort to the achievement of Anglo-German friendship... To achieve this great end [of peace], the leading nations of this continent will one day have to come together in order to draw up, accept and guarantee a statute on a comprehensive basis which will insure for them all a sense of security” Adolf Hitler, October 1939
“I know it to be England. In this hour I feel compelled, standing before my conscience, to direct yet another appeal to reason in England. I believe I can do this as I am not asking for something as the vanquished, but rather, as the victor, I am speaking in the name of reason. I see no compelling reason which could force the continuation of this war” Adolf Hitler, July 1940
Hitler certainly had excellent writers on staff.
This was Hitler appealing to Churchill to sign some sort of treaty or agreement with Germany, I think? The purpose was to get England 'out of the way' of Hitler's real intent to take over the continent. Or something like that.
Yep. If Trump were president in 1940, he would have suspended all aid to Britain, intentionally baited and insulted Churchill, demanded piece with Germany, and tried to make a deal with Hitler - after all, Hitler "held all the cards" after the fall of France, right? We might as well be invading Ukraine for all the damage Trump has caused.
Psychological analysis: Trump had a terribly cruel father whom he could never please. He's now adopted Putin as a father to try to please. Same phenomenon in Vance: He had a string of stepfathers and remodeled himself for each one, to try to please him. Now Trump is his stepfather.
Reminds me of Lindsey Graham, who was okay when he looked up to John McCain, but after McCain's death he moved on to Trump as his new hero.
We are headed for a renewed nuclear arms race and an international arms race in general. We cannot foresee the future at all anymore, whether next month, next year, or 10 years from now. Europe has awakened alright, but Pax Americana is over. 😔
I agree with you, Tom. If anyone thinks Poland is going to wait patiently before pursuing its nuclear weapon, they are ill informed. They will be first in line and God bless em.
I too am so ashamed of my country. How can any republican agree with this???
They can't, but they will anyway. They're brainwashed. I talk to a guy at work sometimes--he thought this scene was hilarious and that Zelensky earned what he got. I told him this was terrible for the country, and that Putin was the aggressor, and that Ukraine was having it's people murdered and raped and stolen, and I said it all, about how this would hurt us, how it was wrong, over and over and over until the other guy walked away. That's the only way to discuss these things with these people--overwhelm them, show passion, maintain decency. But overpower them, and don't ever back down. I tell this guy to his face that he's brainwashed, and he winces 'cause he knows I'm right.
Make'em fuckin' cry.
Well, I mean, the truth of what the Russian government has done and is doing to Ukraine should be shared all over this world. Can you even imagine that 20,000 children have been stolen from their families, adopted by Russian families, had their names changed and family histories erased?? Putin is acting out of fear, evil, greed. And now so is the US government. Stating facts is important. Good for you!!!!!
Good on you! YES - speak up - speak out and speak to the fools who have been brainwashed by the BS. At this point in time the LIES are no longer to get elected they're to save his own throat while he destroys the USA - if he hasn't sold all your souls already - and I fear he has - there's obviously a quid pro quo with Putin and certainly one with Musk. WAKE UP AMERICA - the world is watching and this guy who repeatedly says 'I want peace' is driving us all off the cliff and into global disaster
The question is- what does Putin have on Trump to be guaranteed such fealty? One Moscow operative said that we put him in office-‘now he owes us.
I don't think Putin "has" anything on Trump that's not already on the public record. But Trump is easy to manipulate, and Putin is a master manipulator, so he can play Trump like a fiddle.
You both are fabulous. I am heartbroken.
My heart is broken, too, Deirdre, but I’m ready to fight this. Eric and Eliot give me strength.
Did Vance order the new AG to halt all action against foreign influences in our elections? How often is Trump talking to Putin?
The performances of Trump and Vance in the Oval office were literally nauseating to me. A number of other people have said the same. I can't recall when I have ever felt so angry at my government and so ashamed to be an American.
So thank-you for this emergency podcast. It does help to know that others share one's grief and outrage.
As senior citizens, quite frankly we are terrified 😨 at what is happening!!
Are we going to die on the street from exposure?? Or, can we die this fall in ourown home from the flu because of no vaccinations?? Or will it be bird flu??
I never thought I would type these words, but unless they fear repercussions, what are we doing? They have NO moral direction. Unless the American populace starts to think in terms of France 1832, America is done.
Trump treats Ukrainians almost like he regards Americans. He hates America and I agree with George Conway.
I think Trump’s mental state slipped beyond repair. Trump and JD Vance both need to be removed. Vance tries to be worse than Trump. Both acted like school yard bullies today. That is basically what they are.
I checked the Bulwark and am happy to find your emergence podcast.
I feel like a damned fool here....but this is the first time I've heard of your EXCELLENT podcast! And it will not be the last. Even though I am a "ohmyGodwe'reallgonnadie" type, I really, REALLY appreciate your outlook and your commentary. Several times, I found myself nodding and pointing at the screen saying, "Damn right!" And I'm the only non-4-legged beastie in my home.
Thank you!
Perfidy!
The "analyses" by The Oath-Breaking SoB and his MAGA Mite (Vance) of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, from 2014, and the freely elected and popularly supported President of Ukraine are unparalleled, untruthful, and despicable.
However, the shameful bullying attempted against the Ukrainian President today in the Oval Office was beneath contempt.
Eliot's formulation of "the argument of the Vichy bureaucrat" as a comparison for Trump's collaborators is inspired.
Any chance this was staged to trick Putin?
Here's my theory - It was staged. Trump is unable to get Putin to agree to anything, so he needs to make it look like it's the fault of Zelensky that a deal could not be brokered.
No!
What would the angle be? Trick him into what? As it is, Ukraine will have to give up all the territory seized by Russia in Trump’s “peace deal.” To my mind this was purely for consumption by MAGA.
I have served and defended the United States for the better part of 30 years in Uniform, as a DoD Civilian and as a Contractor. Today is the first time I have to say I'm ashamed to be a US Citizen and wonder what those years were for. This craven ambush at the White House was utterly shameful.
Jim, I did the same trifecta of service as you and I echo your feelings of shame. I still believe our past service was worthwhile though, if only in repayment for all the freedom and opportunities that our Nation gave us up to this point. Underneath my burning rage, I am heartbroken that so many Americans have chosen to support a corrupt, narcissistic sociopath in his quest to destroy the Constitution, our Rule of Law, and very ideals on which our Nation is based on.
I wish Americans were paying attention. If they had, maybe we would not be where we are now. I think too many are complacent and downright ignorant.
Thank you gentleman.
Trump is so pathetic that when he names himself as a god or as the god, he won't even do it as well as Caligula. He will even fail at that! The question is how did our democracy become so fragile that today could happen and half the Senate would take his side. His enablers are even more scary than him.
Complacency, I think. Most of us have grown up knowing only the peace and prosperity of the post-war period. I hope more of us are waking up. Mourn the death of the old world order; prepare to defend what remains of it.
Whitelash.
I've never been angrier watching a political event and am deeply ashamed and scared of the path our country is now on.
Our government betrayed the values of our nation, we just witnessed the destruction of our alliance with our founding fathers. The worst is the silence of our elected republican leaders, who are collaborating with these traitors.
Please understand. This is no longer a debate. This is a fight. We better start seeing it that way.
I agree that vance is evil...sheer evil. He's the one to watch because he's going to take trump out and put himself in. Where we are now is bad, that will be much much worse. Thank you Eric and Eliot for this emergency podcast...I seriously needed to hear your voices of reason and it is as I expected - we are in big trouble.
Why would Vance "take Trump out"? That would make him unpopular with Trump's cult. He just has to wait three years and hope to be anointed as Trump's successor.
Why aren’t we all donating to https://war.ukraine.ua/support-ukraine/ ? I think this is a rebuttable website and if there was a tremendous increase in US donations would be a big F**k you to the Trump Putin admin?
Do your own research…vote with your dollars…give to support Ukraine and F Trump!
My American Ukrainian friend also recommended this site: https://ukraine1991.org
If this website is please correct…and even better provide a better donation platform…anguished
Donated - from Australia. We face our own version of Drumpf in the soon to be 2025 election. But what happened in the oval is SHAMEFUL and transparently an AGGRESSIVE move by your dictator - he's F'ing the WORLD!
Just $50US (=$81AU) and a satisfying F U Drumpf!
'Australia should stand strong and proud with the people of Ukraine. It’s a democracy and this is a fight for civilisation. Vladimir Putin is a murderous dictator and we shouldn’t be giving him an inch,” the Liberal leader told 2GB radio on Thursday' - HA! on 2GB!!! https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/feb/20/peter-dutton-donald-trump-putin-zelenskyy-russia-ukraine-war-comments
BTW for our American friends - the Liberal Coalition Party leader in Australia = chief Republican in the USA
This party is 'Liberal' as in free-market liberalism = our conservative party. Don't ask me how this came about - we're upside down?
The WORLD'S LEADERS MUST ALL say something similar! The Catch-22 is that this may get Dutton elected. Ugh!
It's going to be very interesting to see how Dutton handles things. Wasn't it just a week or so ago he called Trump a "visionary"? After that we were slapped with steel and aluminum tariffs and now this.
I will join you in making a donation and I hope a great many of our fellow Australians do too.
If you don't encounter a pay wall - this is interesting. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/feb/20/peter-dutton-donald-trump-putin-zelenskyy-russia-ukraine-war-comments
Albo didn't call Drumpf out for his comments a few days ago re: Zelensky being a dictator - but DUTTON DID - so...wow! Right? Hopefully, he will follow-through and both he and Albo will call out the lies and their shocking bullying today.
No, he hasn't. He has said we support Ukraine. To be honest, I thought both the PM and Dutton might remain silent.
After all the MAGA vileness that was imported into the Voice debate, I don't know how I'll bear the election. The only hope is Dutton toning down his 'Me Oz Trump. We MAGA outpost' act because Trump will become more on the nose here as he gets increasingly out of control and Australians start paying a bit of attention.
I don't understand international relations. For a long time now, I've wondered why we aren't building strong allies in our neighborhood because it seems to leave us in a weak position. We're way passed the red peril days of my childhood. I have plenty of wonderful people from Asian countries in my personal circle. It seems so strange that my circle is not reflected in our national circle in this day and age.
I was shocked when we joined AUKUS with the UK on the other side of the world and the US seeming to have an increasing interest in fascism with MAGA remaining strong there. And, breaking the French contract to buy subs that we can't operate independently IF we get them ... Of course, now we know more about Morrison's ambitions in the US military industrial complex which I guess was probably the reason we didn't just change our French contracts to nuclear subs when the government changed its mind about sub type?
We are stuck with the ANZUS "Treaty" (without NZ - right?) I didn't know until completing my BA in 2012 (at 51) that ANZUS is a "deal" we have with the US - because they "rescued" us from that red peril threat you write of and since doing so, they are no longer obliged to come to our aid - they may but are not obliged - whereas we remain beholden to the US via ANZUS to assist them - upon request - which we have repeatedly done, since the Korean War.
Morrison put us in the position we're in with the ridiculous subs (and what's happened to the overpriced and obsolete fighter jets someone ordered - was that Morrison too - I forget - might have been Abbott?).
I hope you're right about Drumpf getting up Australians' noses and Dutton toning it down - he's so creepy - and dangerous - his drive for "clean nuclear energy" - still requiring the storing of its radioactive waste - which I've read requires water silos after which it is taken deep underground - as if this makes it "clean" and "safe".
Nice connecting with you here. Best A
Lovely to talk to you too, Alison.
Six months ago, I couldn't have imagined myself thinking terribly much about the US because largely, we seem to do and think what it tells us to do and think so I attended to other aspects of Australian politics. Now I am feeling enormous compassion for Americans who are trying to find ways to save their democracy and grateful that they doing so because if they fail, our wagons is hitched to what's starting to look like a Russian satellite state.
Every day now I feel grateful for our compulsory, preferential system. Goodness knows where we could go without it.
I lived in NYC for 6.5yrs (1995 - 2001) and still have very dear American friends whom I worry for every day. The whole world is being turned upside down by this guy - it's unbelievable that a felon could hold the office - he's such an undignified bully and con artist/grifter - a liar and business cheat - incredible isn't it? If you haven't seen 'The Apprentice" (the 2024 film - not his stupid TV show) it provides insight into his character - good script, great 70s design and brilliant performances.
I've been considering our compulsory voting system lately too and how Americans perceive us as "forced" to vote - under what they perceive as "socialism". My theory is that our landmass and very small population was just cause for the introduction of "compulsory" voting when first implemented (1901?) - to ensure the whole country is informed and included - particularly in federal elections. How else would people in remote areas be assured of their inclusion? Even if people throw their vote when in the booth, which is also their right, we turn up and for the most part, our system means we are actively engaged in the political process.
We are stuck with the ANZUS "Treaty" (without NZ - right?) I didn't know until completing my BA in 2012 (at 51) that ANZUS is a "deal" we have with the US - because they "rescued" us from that red peril threat you write of and since doing so, they are no longer obliged to come to our aid - they may but are not obliged - whereas we remain beholden to the US via ANZUS to assist them - upon request - which we have repeatedly done, since the Korean War.
Morrison put us in the position we're in with the ridiculous subs (and what's happened to the overpriced and obsolete fighter jets someone ordered - was that Morrison too - I forget - might have been Abbott?).
I hope you're right about Drumpf getting up Australians' noses and Dutton toning it down - he's so creepy - and dangerous - his drive for "clean nuclear energy" - still requiring the storing of its radioactive waste - which I've read lately still requires water silos after which it is taken deep underground - as if this makes it "clean" and "safe".
Nice connecting with you here. Best A
I hate to think what Pine Gap is being used for right now.
Via https://u24.gov.ua/
This is the correct website: https://u24.gov.ua/
Great…thank you…sending my F Y Trump dollars and Slava Ukraine!
Thanks!
Thanks for the info. Ive been looking for ways to express my support for Ukraine and will donate tomorrow
Rubio is an obsequious fool on CNN. He can’t shut up. Maybe he knows he won’t sit in phony lectures from Lavrov and be satisfied to continue killing health care for Africa.
Eric and Eliot, could you do an episode for us explaining the “realist” school of thought espoused by Mearsheimer and others wherein they believe that Russia is justified in trying to capture Ukraine because Russia is entitled to have a sphere of influence that includes ownership/control of Ukraine and the Baltics/Eastern Europe (Estonia, Lithuania, etc). A lot of Trump supporters agree with Mearsheimer and will never agree that Ukraine has the right to be free and independent. An episode explaining Mearsheimer and the whole “NATO expansion east provoked Russia” might be helpful for your audience. I’m assuming that Vance is among those who believe, in essence, that Russia is the good guy here, and NATO is the one at fault.
Thanks for all you do. I really, really, enjoy your show.
I think they already did that at least once. Maybe this one?
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/the-world-order-007
It's hard to use a search engine to find a podcast episode, unfortunately.
Thanks, I’ll take a look at that. I only found out about The Bulwark last spring, and have only been a member since April 2024, so not quite a year. I may have to go back and watch the earlier episodes of Shield of the Republic. I didn’t even know about this TB podcast until right before Christmas. I guess I was too focused on what Tim, Sarah, and JVL were putting out. Plus Mona. Plus Sam. Good thing I’m now retired!
I'd like to see them include a third guest - as they have a couple of times in the past. In particular, I would like to see former Russian Ambassador John Sullivan come back on the show. Coincidentally, I was just nearing the end of his memoir "Midnight in Moscow" last week on the third anniversary of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, of which he covers quite extensively in the book. His closing sentence of the final chapter is this: "It remains to be seen whether the United States will be able to lead the West and the rest of the word in opposition to Putin's aggressive war." I think we have our answer.
Yes! I have a feeling Sullivan is appalled by what’s happening. It would be good to hear from him again.
This is an excellent suggestion. I have been wanting to understand this for a couple of years.
I'm happy to second this suggestion. I would treasure your takes on the "Realists".
Thank you for your emergency podcast. I have been alternating between shame and rage since I saw the video right after it happened. Your steadiness (despite your despair) has steeled me up for the fight.
Apparently that one trillion dollars we spend on the defense budget is going to go to Sec. Hegseth's makeup artist and hair gel supply because it sure as hell isn't being used to defend the free world apparently.
"Sec. Hegseth's makeup artist and hair gel supply"
Don't forget his liquor cabinet!
Does Sachs have any solid ground for his undertaking that the U.S. assured Russia that Nato would never expand eastward in exchange for permitting German reunification? I have what are, to me, good reasons for supporting Ukraine and disliking Putin in any case, but wondered if this was true?
Pro-Russian propagandists twist Bush's "not one inch" promise to support their lies. In the context of German reunification, Bush promised that US troops would not be based in former East German territory. But pro-Russian American leftists concocted a grand lie by reinterpreting the "not one inch" promise as pertaining to NATO enlargement rather than the basing of US troops. Later, Putin latched onto this lie.
This old National Review article has a great summary of the matter. Unfortunately, it is now behind a paywall.
https://www.nationalreview.com/magazine/2018/06/11/russian-aggression-ukraine-not-america-fault/
I think I have a reasonably good handle on the perspectives enumerated. My question relates more to Sachs' credibility and bona fides, I am not at all familiar with him. He speaks well and has a helluva c.v. Frankly, what with the holodomor, forced resettlement, and the denazification fiction, I must view Russia and Putin as bad actors. Not at all sure that I think any 90s era "commitments" (trashed ex post facto in any case) are very meaningful.
If you’re talking about David Sacks, it’s SACKS. This “did NATO expansion east provoked Russia” and “it violated a promise that James Baker made to Gorbachev in 1997” argument has been around for years. In his autobiography, Gorbachev denied that such a promise ever happened, but that hasn’t stopped people from repeating it ad nauseum. The definitive book on the history of these events is the book “Not One Inch”, by M E Sarotte (2021).
From the NYT in 2022:
“ President Vladimir V. Putin and other Russian officials have asserted that Mr. Baker ruled out NATO expansion into Eastern Europe when he served as President George H.W. Bush’s top diplomat. The West’s failure to live up to that agreement, in this argument, is the real cause of the crisis now gripping Europe as Mr. Putin demands that NATO forswear membership for Ukraine as the price of calling off a potential invasion.
But the record suggests this is a selective account of what really happened, used to justify Russian aggression for years. While there was indeed discussion between Mr. Baker and the Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev in the months after the fall of the Berlin Wall about limiting NATO jurisdiction if East and West Germany were reunited, no such provision was included in the final treaty signed by the Americans, Europeans and Russians.
“ The bottom line is, that’s a ridiculous argument,” Mr. Baker said in an interview in 2014, a few months after Russia seized Crimea and intervened in eastern Ukraine. “It is true that in the initial stages of negotiations I said ‘what if’ and then Gorbachev himself supported a solution that extended the border that included the German Democratic Republic,” or East Germany, within NATO. Since the Russians signed that treaty, he asked, how can they rely “on something I said a month or so before? It just doesn’t make sense.”
In fact, while Mr. Putin accuses the United States of breaking an agreement it never made, Russia has violated an agreement it actually did make with regard to Ukraine. In 1994, after the Soviet Union broke apart, Russia signed an accord along with the United States and Britain called the Budapest Memorandum, in which the newly independent Ukraine gave up 1,900 nuclear warheads in exchange for a commitment from Moscow “to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine” and “to refrain from the threat or use of force” against the country.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/09/us/politics/russia-ukraine-james-baker.html?smid=nytcore-android-share
No. I was speaking of Jeffrey Sachs. Thank you.
Sorry about that. I know so much about David Sacks these days, I guess it was a knee jerk response. And sorry about the “lecture” if you already knew all that stuff. My bad.
Ann, I very much appreciated your edifying "lecture." Thank you!
Thanks, Eileen. I’ve been following this Ukraine war since the invasion in February 2022. Sadly, I didn’t pay enough attention in 2014 when Russia invaded Crimea, nor was I aware of the fighting in the Donbas all this time. Now I’m at the point that I almost know more than is good for me. The way Trump and Vance treated Zelensky yesterday made me want to vomit. I just wish people would stop believing these lies. How to make that happen, I do not know. I am, however, more convinced than ever that Putin owns Trump. Putin will destroy us from within, if we let him, which it seems too many people are willing to do.
And to think that Vance considers himself an expert when he hasn’t even been to Ukraine. I wonder who told him that “when people visit Ukraine you [Zelensky] take them on a propaganda tour”. That would be an interesting piece of information.
No, no, not at all sure about the fellow I mentioned, he addressed a segment of the EU recently and did reference the supposed Nato expansion undertaking, casting a broad net, invoking H.D. Genscher and Gorb, Brzezinski, but not Baker that I recall. . .The abm treaty withdrawal/ Nato in Serbia etc. these he spoke of as raising Russian hackles, and I truly don't care. I came away confused but sure of Putin's criminality as a given. Chance name similarity.
Anthony Fisher wrote a good article on this:
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/trump-zelenskyy-oval-office-meeting-shame-rcna194281
Zelensky is the new Churchill
Rage for four years? Stay level-headed? Gentlemen, it shall require the blood of patriots to correct this situation.
We need to be prepared to march against Trump as Ukrainian patriots did against Yanukovych.
Based on the Fox talking points being spread amongst Republicans that "Americans want to know how their money is being spent."
Americans spent about $155 million on Trump's golf and events at his resorts in his first term. Oh, and a tidy $100,000 on hair, beauty treatments and spas for the portly President.
So in the spirit of shared sacrifices as we fire everyone in Government, let's agree to not pay for Trump's golf, resorts, haircuts, tanning beds, and spa treatments! I mean if we can't scrape together the dollars to defend allies against invasion and rape, surely we can agree that we should not waste our money on a President who golfs excessively and does not work to defend our country or our allies from our enemies. Has anyone ever seen this guy work????
It might be useful to do the same calculations for Obama and then compare them. I'm betting Trump's golf expenditures in four years will turn out to be greater than Obama's in eight years.
We need to March now!
Indivisible.org lists protests in many cities on Tuesday, March 4. The one in Portland, OR (at City Hall) begins at noon. I'm guessing that they all do but you can check that for yourself, if interested.
He will make a mineral deal with Putin.
Vance was so incensed that Zelinskyy questioned Putin’s diplomacy. JD seemed coiled like a viper waiting to bite and sprung the propagandist phrase of not licking the king’s toes sufficiently, not exactly a smooth topical transition there. Obviously an ambush and dreadfully clear that the VP belongs to Putin.
Less a viper than a rabid dog, snapping wildly.
Eric & Eliot, thanks for doing this; I needed it!
Good podcast.
I felt the same shame for my country, and saw the same set up when watching these two bully bad actors.💔 Very sad and disheartening to really know this is what we are now.
I wonder what Putin paid Trump to set up this hit?
The saddest thing is that I don't think that Putin has ever had to pay Trump: Trump has always been subservient to Putin because he wants to be, he is so grateful for any attention he can get. A total fanboy.
Yes, AND, there is something more to it. I truly believe there are multiple video tapes of the "golden showers" variety. My sense is they all feature Trump as a willing submissive, being humiliated. I think that is what he wouldn't be able to handle. I'm not a therapist, but I'm fairly well read in psychology, etc. and it simply feels like "that's it" to me, for what that's worth.
Thank you for this honest and sobering discussion. It makes me feel less alone to know the experts are as disgusted as I am.
GET IN THE STREETS FELLAS
Thank you, gentlemen. Words fail. As a Californian living in the Netherlands, I feel deeply ashamed of the disgraceful behavior on display by our so-called "leaders". It was stomach-churning and beyond disrespectful. My fiancé is Czech, so we appreciated you mentioning the honorable/inspiring Václav Havel and his message to live in truth.🕊️☮️🇺🇦🇨🇿🇳🇱🇪🇺🌈💐✨
Elections may not happen. Trump may ignore legal rulings. It is all unacceptable.
The thing about political violence at this juncture is that the Trump administration's Justice Department will give a pass to the people committing violence on the right while aggressively pursuing those on the left who engage in similar tactics. The latter will be prominently featured on FOX and on OAN while the former will be ignored. It doesn't have to be a conscious strategy anymore. It's just the way things are now.
It’s time to fight. We can’t just sit t back and say que sera sera.
Trump will not run for reelection in 2028 because Vance will take him out before then. Vance is the most immoral human being to be that close to the Presidency in the history of this country. Vance will become the next President or die trying.
The only way J.D. Vance will ever be president is if Donald Trump dies before January 20, 2029. He has no other path.
Accidents happen. People get sick from things they eat. Happens in Russia a lot, I think.
Ukraine had nukes too.
Which they relinquished in 1994 per the terms of the Budapest Memorandum, in exchange for security assurances from Russian, US and UK.
Yes indeed.
Just saw interview with Ukrainian official 🇺🇦 saying she hopes he knew all the people and government were 1000% behind him in that room witnessing Zelenskyy standing up as their president not selling them out to Putin and be extorted by Trump.
We need to get out on the streets and protest - small towns, cities, state capitals, DC...
I have been doing "Pop Up Protests" in my small NH town. Today my poster said "Elon Musk Has All Your Data", and I walked up and down the main street for an hour. Mostly I was ignored by cars/trucks, I had some people give me a thumbs up and there were 2 trucks driven by young men who harassed me. I smiled, waved and wished everyone a good day:)
Tomorrow I am going out and my sign is ready - " We Are Not Russia YET"
We have to save ourselves.
Hi Maureen (nice name!)...I'm originally from NH - Grew up in Hudson, lived in Alexandria for many years! I am now living in Hawaii...the NH winters were not for me! I've been participating in our small island protests (we live on Molokai, population 7,300) and feel so isolated from where I could be helping out more, but I'll do whatever I can from here!! Thanks for stepping up!! Stay strong!!
Maureen - stand strong!
So we are now Russia’s military partner. Reagan must be so astonished he’s petitioning for resurrection.
I think Zelensky is better off not having signed the mineral deal.
Russia is absolutely tanking. Putin had to sell so much gold. They are losing so many men every day. Their basic economy is about to crash.
First I’m surprised that you are surprised that this happened. It was always clear where Trump stood on Ukraine. Please please please stop trying to find a nugget in a pile of shit.
Second, honestly this was good. It is wayyyyyy better that the ukraine, europes, and the world better understands NOW where Trump and America stand. It could have been worse: drawing the truth out. We were always going to end up here (with Trump).
I have not been surprised by anything Trump (or Vance) has done, but it is still shocking. If any of you know of the Polyvagal System, the manifestation of that kind of shock goes right to the body, and often directly to the stomach. It is not coincidental that so many of us have talked about feeling as if we had to vomit.
And for anyone who experienced childhood trauma from repeated parental verbal abuse tirades, watching what seemed endless abusive bullying, was quite triggering. Once they got into it, neither Vance or Trump wanted it to end. There is a term for that: Repetition Compulsion. Victimized child becomes Perpetrator.
When I saw that photo of Marco Rubio, that's what I saw. The face of an 8 year-old frightened boy. That doesn't let him off the hook. I agree with everything everyone has said as to why Rubio deserves absolutely no sympathy! But seeing that frightened little boy inside him added another layer of sadness for me. I am feeling vulnerable in sharing this, and hoping that someone else will write "I saw it as well!" But be that as it may, I've shared what's in my heart, and what I love about The Bulwark, is that we, here, share that as well.
Fair. Not surprising but still shocking
I understand. I couldn’t watch the whole thing. I was bullied as a child, and even Trump’s but especially Vance’s voice returns me to that feeling of being surrounded and jeered at. I can’t find it in my heart to sympathize with the bullies, but I did learn from bitter experience that the only thing that works is to give as good as you get. Bullies love public displays, because most of us are constrained by our sense of decorum to placate and calm. No. Like for like. Civility is on vacation.
I agree, Migs. I have felt the war in Ukraine has always been morally clear in a way that no other war in my lifetime has been, and even though I hate it I’m glad to know without a shred of doubt what we’ve become and what we can expect.
Exactly. Eliot is the perfect example of how, if Trump played his cards right, Trump could have perfectly screwed Ukraine. He is always looking for some snippet which shows that Trump cares and will support Ukraine. Always.
It has been clear for 8 years that Trump hates Ukraine and LOVES Russia. Better to know it now and plan accordingly (I worry that the Europeans won’t do shit
Went from we will have a cease fire day one to I don’t know if we will even have a cease fire.
Vance terrifies me.
What is Vance's deal with Ukraine? It seems to go beyond indifference.
Vance used his anti-Ukraine stance to bolster his MAGA bona fides. He would lose face if he were to back down now.
It's also possible he has come to believe his own BS after repeating it for a few years. What began as opportunism might have morphed into sincere, if shallow, belief. (FWIW, I think that's what happened to Pat Buchanan. He started by pandering to an underserved market and eventually was persuaded by his own rhetoric.)
Vance is the most evil human being in the United States at the current moment. He beats Trump by a mile on the evil scale.
Where do you put Elon?
Elon is amoral, not immoral, therefore not evil per se. Elon is on an entirely different scale.
Trump is Putin’s BEST ASSET ever! We know Trump wouldn’t have stood by Ukraine. Who does he ever stand by? (Ok, Putin. He stands by Putin)
I said this on You Tube and will repeat it here. As a Canadian, I have been disturbed by this 51st state nonsense, but it became clear to me today that Trump and Vance want to carve up the world into 3 parts. Trump takes North and South America, while giving away Asia to China and Europe to Russia. Until both are eliminated that will be their goal!
That tripolar world is actually Russia and China’s idea. They articulated it earlier this year, though I no longer have the citation. It may actually be a quad polar world with Iran in charge of the Middle East, but I think Saudi Arabia will make sure that doesn’t happen. Turkey may be a wild card.
Trump likes Erdogan and MBS - fellow corrupt billionaires. I'm sure they have more influence over Trump than any of our other allies.
Possibly, although I wonder if Trump would do a 180 if King Charles offered him a knighthood? My initial reaction to Friday’s debacle was that Charles should rescind the state visit invitation (which the British people now want him to do), but then the devil on my shoulder said, “no, offer him a knighthood to go against Russia”. Do you think he would crush Putin if he could be “Sir Donald”? 😂
Trump would take the knighthood and then go back on his word to oppose Russia.
You’re right. Stupid idea. Charles should just cancel the state visit. But he won’t. Sigh.
George Orwell came up with a tripolar world in 1948, when he wrote 1984. They were three evil empires too.
What’s distressing to me is to be out and about running errands on a Saturday afternoon, knowing that 90% of the people around me don’t know and don’t care about the destruction of the world order that is taking place while they buy their groceries, put gas in their car, and pick up a few beers to go home and watch sports on tv. They think everything is just fine and my hair is on fire. My super liberal far left Jewish former law partner is getting ready to go on a bike tour of Argentina so he doesn’t have to think or read about this for a month. He told me he tries not to pay attention to the news so that he “doesn’t go crazy”. There must be a middle ground between being on fire and burying your head in the sand, but I’ve yet to find it.
My other former law partner (we’re all retired) is in the middle of renovating a house in Italy. He’s leaving to go work on his house for 3 months. Same idea, just go somewhere else and ignore what’s happening for the sake of sanity. Me, I donated to the Ukraine military last night after convincing my bank that the website was legit. So now I’m donating to Democracy Forward and https://u24.gov.ua/ I have to do more than nothing or I would lose my mind.
I'm wondering why you felt the need to identify your former law partner as Jewish? But curiously, you didn't describe your other former law partner as anything other than that. I mean, he might have been black. Or Baptist. Or a black Baptist. As I said, just wondering?
Also, is there a badge you proudly wear for having won the "holier than thou" contest you've apparently won?
I’m not sure what you mean by “holier than thou”. I am trying to encourage people to donate to organizations that are active fighting the situation in which we find ourselves rather than run away from it. I see that you are also Jewish. What my Jewish friends, neighbors and law partners always impressed upon me is the concept of tikkum olam, which I know means something to you. I mentioned it because I don’t understand how someone who always struck me as a fighter for social justice doesn’t seem to know what to do right now except to run away to another country for a month and try to forget that any of this is happening. I expected him to fight, somehow, some way. Fwiw, the other guy is not just a lawyer, but also a Catholic priest. He too is just running away to another country for 3 months to forget about what is happening. I wear no badge of honor. I am doing what I can to fight and would encourage others to find something they can do, no matter how small, to make this world a better place. I’m sure you are doing the same. You liked my “lecture” earlier today, for which I am grateful. Thanks for the feedback.
You wrote:
"I see that you are also Jewish. What my Jewish friends, neighbors and law partners always impressed upon me is the concept of tikkum olam, which I know means something to you."
Interesting...Where did you "see" that I am Jewish? I don't recall having shared any personal information other than I live in Portland, Oregon when I posted about the Indivisible.org protest that's going to be held at City Hall.
And why would declare that "you know what means something to me?" You have no idea what does or doesn't have meaning to me.
Respectfully, I don't doubt your good intentions, but I do suggest that you might think a bit more before you post something. Before I post I reread and edit, not just for typos and sentence structure, but appropriateness. I have deleted entire paragraphs, more than once. It's a good practice, especially for those of us who find it very easy to write, and the thoughts just flow from fingers to page. It is a gift, but one, I suggests that needs to be monitored when it's a write/click/ instantly "published" format.
So let's leave it as that, shall we?
I saw that you are Jewish in your Substack user profile. You mentioned it in one of the many posts you made under your “activity” column (which used to be called “notes”, but now Substack calls it activity). If you check your “likes” column and scroll down, you will see where you “liked” my post about the theory some people opposed to Ukrainian sovereignty have that Jim Baker promised that NATO would not expand eastward. You even responded telling me that you liked it and thanking me for it.
I’m glad that you are active with Indivisible. Many others here have posted that they are active with Indivisible, and they encourage people to take part and join. TB commenters have also shared that they use an app called “5 calls” to put pressure on their representatives in Congress, and yet others have posted about going to protests under the auspices of 50501. I enjoy the fact that we have a community here that encourages such activism and that we support each other’s efforts to counteract the terrible changes coming out of DC since this election. When people respond to me in Substack, I always read their user profile. I like to know who I’m talking to, and who is talking to me. Thank you for your response.
I hear you Ann, it bothers the hell out of me as well. However, I think they may feel differently soon, because I believe Trump is going to create a worldwide recession with his tariffs. It will be even worse in the US, with mass firings, breakdown of government/social services, and the increasing spread of disease. When you step back and look at it, it is utterly insane - the wealthiest country in the world is destroying itself, a destruction that is being led and supported by its wealthiest citizens. Perdition to all of them!
Trump doesn’t want Peace, he wants SUBMISSION.
Thanks for these—this. It’s clarifying.
Thanks for this podcast. Mr. Cohen, you're the only other person I have heard share the thought that where did they ever get the idea that only they own guns.
More than 110 countries’ citizens have donated to Ukraine for defense, de-mining efforts, medical aid, etc (they have bucket categories on the site). You can also find info on where the donations go, how the money is spent. Please forward to everyone and anyone who wants to support Ukraine: u24.gov.ua
I sent off my letters to my elected representatives and then donated to Ukraine after watching this disgusting piece of propaganda in the White House. I'm also flying my US flag upside down. I've never been so mad at a President (and I lived through the Nixon years)! I am one pissed off grandma.
Thank you for broadcast. I don’t feel better but i don’t feel so alone. At 82, it boggles the mind that I would ever see this in my lifetime… and there’s been a lot!
Lois, I was thinking of my grandmother last night, who was born in 1896. She grew up as the daughter of sharecroppers in Mississippi, saw both World Wars, the Great Depression, the Cold War, McCarthyism, Vietnam, and a social revolution she did not understand. She survived it all to die finally of old age at almost 96. My grandfather served in WW1. They were uneducated, but because of his service my grandfather was able to get a job with the US Post Office and walked a route for many years, allowing them to buy land, build a house, and grow their own food. I don’t know why I’m telling you all this, except that I hope we who are old carry these memories and let them inform our responses to the current crisis. And that whenever we can we teach the young what it meant to be strong and to love this country. I am with you in spirit. I pray I have the courage to meet this moment as my forebears met theirs.
Thanks for sharing some of your family history Sherri, it is one of the things that makes The Bulwark community special. My paternal grandfather also served in WW1 - albeit in the Kaisers navy.
Thank you Eric and Eliot for doing this emergency podcast. It was cathartic listening to two ‘OGs’ share reactions to today’s debacle.
If this is the beginning of WWIII, the the US is on the wrong side. I have never beenso ashamed of my nation. My parents brought me to this country at the age of 4. I swore an oath to the constitution and promised to hold this country above all others when I turned 18. The President and VP of the US have broken their oaths. It is in no way in the interests of the US to be on the side of Putin. So much of their behavior has been unconstitutional in the past month that my oath requires me to denounce them both. They are not fit for office. Get them out now.
Everyone should donate to Ukrainian government - u24.gov.ua
I did, thank you. It was little enough, but it satisfied my need to do something.
Zelensky unfortunately made a very wrong analysis that ‘one day this will come to you’. Or that Russia will eventually come for the US. They already have. Our president is a Russian stooge. They at the least tried to help him win the 2016 election. It’s already here. And he literally just lived it.
What’s the solution for this? Aside from beating the Republicans at every level of government possible?
Donate to Ukrainian govt - u24.gov.ua
You can donate as much or as little as you want, there is info on where the money goes, but this is a great way for all of us to stand with Ukraine
Trump is an asshole and jd knows how to excite it.
I would say what an embarrassment for the US but these are the folks we elected. Maybe as a nation we’re just a crass bully with no heart, grace or finesse. It’s still the Wild West, folks! Very unfair to double team Zelenskyy. Dirty pool and not even letting him get out a full sentence.
As has been said of Trump “His faults are fractal, even his flaws have flaws.” He’s not only a treacherous bully but rude, coarse and crude as well. We feel level on level of shame for his words, his deeds and his manners. Trump’s spoony-eyed penchant for dictators is of a piece with his golden toilet and bathroom chandelier.
AND he was elected, so he is the mirror for almost half of voting age Americans. This IS the United States. This is the worst of it but certainly not the first time. I don't really understand why so many people seem so shocked. I am certain no one subscribed to The Bulwark is in denial of our American history. Therefore, the American history teacher in me doesn't need to bring any of it to your attention. This is Us. (Great name for a multi-season TV series, don't you think?) But, more aptly: This is the Worst of Us.
So, let's resist "Pearl Clutching" because we don't have the time for it, and figure out how we can save us. That's our only option and some are going to die trying, as some posters have already bluntly stated. Remember that until we finally got our isolation asses pulled into WW II it looked as if Hitler and team were going to win. All we can do, is to do whatever can be done, on all fronts. No guarantees.
I am suddenly struck by the feeling of how absolutely bizarre this is. As if I'm having the longest fever dream, and will wake with a sign of relief! And then, as I'm drinking my first cup of coffee, realize that I've got the first episode of a Netflix political thriller series. And as I walk over to my desktop computer, I see President Kamala Harris on CNN talking about how eggs are down to $3.25 a dozen at Costco and other market chains. And so, I sit at my computer, open a blank Word file and begin with this question: What if Trump had won the election and began his "shock and awe" attack domestically, and change the world order by doing Putin's bidding, beginning with Ukraine?
Sigh... "If wishes were horses, beggars would ride." I really, really need to get some sleep.
It is also simply inhuman. When you invite a person into your home, you owe them guest right. It is an ancient time honored norm across the world. This is a shame on every single citizen and we owe Zelenskyy and Ukraine recompense for our mistreatment of an invited guest.
I agree. And as other commentators are weighing in, it was also and critically a disgraceful repudiation of our past support for a nation in favor of a cruel dictator who happens to be our president’s best buddy—some are saying Trump was recruited in the past by the KGB!
This is sickening..
JD: we need diplomacy
Zelenskyy: we did diplomacy and Russia reneged and murdered our people
JD: (realizes he’s a moron and wrong)……you’re so disrespectful you should say thank you
Clowns 🤡
Trump was right about one thing: “I’m glad the people were able to see this”
Listen to Lindsey. This is the last move Putin wants before he takes over part (or all) of Ukraine - Zelenskyy to resign.
I understand the point about this being a set up or staged ambush, but do you think it went as planned? Meaning - did Trump and JD get what they wanted? To me they look so weak and cowardly. But I understand that I’m in a bubble.
MAGA is all for it, so Trump got what he wanted.
I think it did go as JD planned. He is an America First proponent, 21st century style. He wanted to push Trump’s buttons. Trump is venal, petty, lazy, and probably compromised by the Russians( not through sex but most likely through money laundering). He also shows signs of decreasing mental acuity.
JD just had to push his buttons.
No matter what happens politically in the US in the next few election cycles, the Europeans now see that we as a nation are politically unreliable because we elected Donald Trump not once but twice.
It sucks to be in the same boat as those foolish and self-deluded enough to have voted for this . But here we are.
Exactly. Glad to see Zelenskyy/Zelensky as brave and bold as smart, moral people capable of strong leadership are expected to be. He ABSOLUTELY was not cowed by a man who was NEVER in combat when in Afghanistan (oops, should have said Iraq?),, though wants all of us to think he was. in combat
How do we know? Someone who'd been in the services pointed out to me how ODD Vance's military photo is, from his time, as a soldier. Marines in active combat are not pudgy as Vance seemed to be, but LEAN. That person looked into it and found the VP was only a public info guy. He thought he could TALK a brave man who cares for his country into submission, maybe as Vance submits too easily to certain people?
Iraq, not Afghanistan. But yes, he wrote public relations memos.
Rikki - you seem very clear-eyed to me. You're NOT the one in a bubble!
Looking at Dan Crenshaw’s response on X, I fear this is going to give the remaining members of the GOP who were nominally pro-Ukraine a silly argument to move towards the “they made their own bed” argument. Which I think is a problematic development.
That may be a moot point if this really energizes 80% of the country who might find it embarrassing…but I suppose that remains to be seen.
The Congressional GOP was always going to fall in behind Trump. They are spineless wretches. Nobody should lose any sleep over the possibility of any outcome besides that.
At most 70% will get upset. Trump has a hard core base of 30% who believe everything he says. They will never be on the side of Ukraine. They also believe Professor Mearsheimer at the U of Chicago and the other “realists”. These are US academics who believe that Russia is entitled to have a “sphere of influence”, and that sphere includes Ukraine and the Baltics. Mearsheimer, et al, believe that NATO expansion east justifiably threatened Russia and that Putin was justified in invading Crimea in 2014, and the rest of Ukraine in 2022. Many, many Trump supporters adhere to this school of thought. It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s an academic theory, and it doesn’t emanate from Trump. You will never change their minds.
Even giving geo-political realism its due there’s no excuse for his crass bad manners. To shout down a guest in your home is despicable regardless of where you think America's interests lie. Avoiding war with dictators is not the same as toadying to them, and nothing justifies the grotesque rudeness. A day of bitter shame.
Agreed. Fwiw, I doubt that Trump has ever heard of Mearsheimer or “realism”, and he wouldn’t understand it if you tried to explain it to him. He just wants to own “the rare earths”, as he calls them. He doesn’t understand that either, he just knows they’re valuable. He’s a dunce.
Rust - oh please let it be 80% !!! Considering last fall's election I just hope to see 48.3% of us more energized. Maybe at least some who voted Trump from party loyalty still believe in liberty & democracy over authoritarian oligarchy enough to make this their last straw? Magic 8 ball sez: Doubtful
Bullies on display. Ashamed of the American President and Vice President. Never in my life could I have imagined the top of MY government acting like these rude idiots.
Low point in our history.
Do you ever stop with the histrionics????
If you don't think this situation demands 'histrionics' you don't understand much about what just happened.
And how would you respond, pray tell?
Whose histrionics? I think this reaction to Trumputin is quite measured. We should all be screaming in the streets.
This is so bad. I don’t have words for it
If we’re not allowed to call The Dearest Donald a Russian asset, can’t we at least now call him a Russian sympathizer?
Who says we're not allowed to call Trump a Russian asset? Trump is easy to manipulate, and Putin is a master manipulator. Putin uses Trump as an asset, whether Trump knows it or not.
I’m effing beside myself and I don’t think I’ve been this upset in a VERY long time
Who is Jonathan?
Okay, but you are posting in the Shield the Republic's podcast, of which JVL is not participating or even referenced.