With you on this. I heard this discussion and thought that neither had come to grips with the real complexities of pregnancy and the withdrawal of care that we see every day from the places that have banned or have shortened the time to get one. You can hear now how much of this is utterly political and academic and unattached to any pregnant woman (or woman who wants to be pregnant). It doesn't make sense to talk about protecting fetuses, but not about making sure that mothers are safe and healthy.