Fascinating conversation, and now Vindman's book is in the bullpen as I am in the process of completing "Intent to Destroy" by a recent guest of yours, Eugene Finkel.

The one thing I would like to say about the US History with Ukraine has to do with Ukraine's and Russia's history itself, but also of the way we Americans deal with foreign policy.

Right or wrong, Russia and Russians have seen Ukraine as a part of Greater Russia for centuries. I say that as an historical comment, not as an argument for US or Western abandonment of Ukraine. In fact, I am in favor of supporting them, to quote Former President Biden "as long as it takes".

But given that history, it will take very long indeed--maybe forever. In fact, I don't think Putin can survive if he is ever truly defeated here. So, as it should have been in Afghanistan and never was, it would be useful now and in the future if honest assessments could be given to the American people about what exactly we are getting ourselves into.