Just listened to the This is Madness podcast with Tim Miller - where this hold my beer topic was briefly discussed. Charlie's response to the "no tax without representation" argument was that advocates could also argue why limit this to local elections - allow legal permanent residents to also vote in statewide and federal elections. But are they actually saying this? Why isn't there a logical argument about allowing local votes but use broader voting rights as an incentive to obtain citizenship. I am getting very discouraged with the idea that Democrats have to do everything perfectly and message it perfectly or the abusive party will come back into power and punish us all.