KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Decision 2024.
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I just hope we get fair treatment because if we don't, our country is in big, big trouble.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As the presidential election year begins, former President Trump faces multiple legal challenges, while President Biden makes the case his likely GOP opponent is a serious threat to democracy.
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
The choice is clear. Donald Trump's campaign is about him, not America, not you. Democracy is on the ballot, your freedom is on the ballot.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik of New York and Biden’s deputy campaign manager Quentin Fulks. Plus, wider war. There are growing fears the war between Israel and Hamas could spread further after the U.S. killed an Iranian backed militia leader inside Iraq, a top Hamas leader was killed in Lebanon and tensions are rising in the Red Sea.
SEC. ANTONY BLINKEN:
We have an intense focus on preventing this conflict from spreading.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Israel’s President Isaac Herzog. And, shutdown threat. Will Republican demands for spending cuts lead to another government shutdown?
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
We want to get the border closed and secured first.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How far is the White House willing to go to get a deal on border security? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News White House Correspondent Mike Memoli, Wall Street Journal Columnist Peggy Noonan and Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning and welcome to this first show of the new year. The Iowa caucuses are just 8 days away. We are just 303 days from election day and democracy is front and center. Faced with low approval ratings, and trailing former President Trump in head-to-head polling, President Biden kicked off his 2024 campaign on Friday. On the third anniversary of the January 6th attack on the Capitol, Biden framed the election as an existential choice for the future of democracy.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
This is not rhetorical, academic or hypothetical. Whether democracy is still America's sacred cause is the most urgent question of our time. That's what the 2024 election is all about.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
A new Washington Post-University of Maryland poll shows a third of Republicans and nearly half of Trump voters believe the false claim that the FBI organized and encouraged the January 6th attack. That's despite one of the largest criminal investigations in American history resulting so far in more than 1,250 charged and 890 convictions. President Biden accused Mr. Trump of refusing to denounce political violence. Just this week, bomb threats were reported at government buildings in at least ten states, forcing lockdowns and evacuations at state capitols and courthouses across the country before the FBI determined the threats were a hoax.
[START TAPE]
PRES. JOE BIDEN:
Political violence is never, ever acceptable in the United States political has never, never, never. It has no place in a democracy, none. We can't be pro-insurrectionist and pro-American. Trump and his Maga supporters not only embrace political violence, but they laugh about it. At his rally, he jokes about an intruder, whipped up by the big Trump lie, taking a hammer to Paul Pelosi's skull and echoing the very same words used on January 6, “Where's Nancy?” And he thinks that's funny.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, the Supreme Court will consider whether former President Trump can be banned from the ballot in Colorado because of his role on January 6th. Mr. Trump was disqualified from primary ballots in Colorado and Maine pending appeals, on the grounds that anyone who swore an oath to uphold the constitution and then, quote, “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” against it is no longer eligible for state or federal office. At least 18 additional states have unresolved 14th Amendment challenges. Trump, who is looking to cement his dominant lead in the polls with four Iowa rallies in two days, responded forcefully.
[START TAPE]
FMR. PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
When you make your speech in front of millions of people and you're making the beautiful speech, looking down to the water, that was one of the great scenes I've ever seen. By the way, I think J6 had an equal amount of people. The biggest crowd I believe I ever spoke to, you never hear about that, do you? You have the hostages, the J6 hostages, I call them. Nobody has been treated ever in history so badly as those people. You know what they ought to do? They ought to release the J6 hostages, they've suffered enough. They ought to release them. I call them hostages.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is a key Trump ally, Republican Congresswoman Elise Stefanik of New York, who chairs the House Republican Conference, making her the highest-ranking woman in congressional GOP leadership. She is also the youngest woman ever to serve in elected congressional leadership. Congresswoman Stefanik, welcome to Meet the Press.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Great to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. I want to start by talking about 2024, some of what we've heard over the past 48 hours. Obviously, President Biden officially kicking off his campaign against former President Trump, who's the strong front-runner. You are one of Trump's strongest supporters. In his speech, President Biden casts the former president as a threat to democracy. This was an argument that was effective in 2020. It was a winning argument for Democrats in 2022. How do you answer that charge?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, first, Kristen, I wouldn't say it's a winning argument. In fact, in 2022, Democrats lost the House, and House Republicans ran on the issues that matter to the American people. We ran on securing the border. We ran on addressing the historic inflation, which the American people know is a result of Joe Biden's failed policies and the trillions of dollars of reckless spending. And what Joe Biden didn't mention in his speech were any of the policies that have created a crisis across America. So, zero mention of the border, which is wide open and a top issue even in my home state, in New York. You have Democratic mayors who are speaking out about Joe Biden's border crisis. No mention of inflation, which continues to be a concern for voters across my district. And when it comes to threats to democracy, Joe Biden and Democrats are a threat to democracy. We see them attempting to remove President Trump from the ballot. We saw this in Colorado and Maine. That is the suppression of the American people and the American people's ability to cast their ballots this November. So, it's Democrats that are a threat to democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We should note, of course, there's no evidence that President Biden is in any way coordinating with the Justice Department in terms of the indictments against former President Trump. But staying on this issue of January 6th because, of course, Mr. Trump was talking about this as well. This weekend, we did mark the three year anniversary. And I want to pause for a minute and play some of the comments that you made on the evening of that day. Let's take a look.
[START TAPE]
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
This has been a truly tragic day for America. Americans will always have the freedom of speech and the constitutional right to protest. But violence in any form is absolutely unacceptable. It is anti-American and must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In terms of what we're hearing today, former President Trump has referred to January 6th as a, quote, "beautiful day." Just this weekend, he referred to some of those who are serving time for having stormed the Capitol as, quote, "hostages." Do you still feel as though that day was tragic and that those who were responsible should be held responsible to the fullest extent of the law?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, first of all, Kristen, as typical for NBC and the biased media, you played one excerpt of my speech. I stand by my comments that I made on the House floor. I stood up for election integrity, and I challenged and objected to the certification of the state of Pennsylvania because of the unconstitutional overreach. So, I absolutely stand by my floor speech. I am proud to support President Trump. And I want to correct another statement you made that there is no coordination with Joe Biden and the Department of Justice in prosecutions against President Trump. We just saw Hunter Biden defy a congressional subpoena and the White House admitting it was in coordination with Joe Biden the morning of. That is coordination, and I believe that Joe Biden will be found to be the most corrupt president in our nation's history. And that's why all of the investigative work that we're doing is so, so important, because the American people, they deserve transparency and accountability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
A lot to unpack there. Of course, the White House has said that Hunter Biden is acting unilaterally. On the issue of election integrity, though, as you know, Trump took his case to court more than 60 times that there was fraud. He didn't win. But I want to get back to this key question. Do you still think it was a tragic day? Do you think that the people who stormed the Capitol should be held responsible to the full extent of the law –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
I have concerns about the treatment of January 6th hostages. I have concerns – we have a role in Congress of oversight over our treatments of prisoners. And I believe that we're seeing the weaponization of the federal government against not just President Trump, but we're seeing it against conservatives. We're seeing it against Catholics. And that's one of the reasons why I'm so proud to serve in the Select Committee on the Weaponization of the Government, because the American people want answers. They want transparency. And they understand that, as you look across this country, there seems to be two sets of rules. If your last name is Clinton or it's Biden, you get to live by a different set of rules than if you're an everyday, patriotic American. I've been clear, Kristen. If you go back and play the full speech I gave on the House floor, I condemn the violence just like I condemned the violence of the BLM riots. But I also, importantly, stood for election integrity and security of our elections, which, if we don't have that, we do not have a democracy. So, the real threat to our democracy is these baseless witch hunt investigations and lawsuits against President Trump, whether it's Tish James or whether we see in the DC Circuit Court. And that is undemocratic, and it's shredding our Constitution. And you know who agrees with me, Kristen? The American people. That's why President Trump is winning in poll after poll against Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The Justice Department has indicted a number of top-name Democrats, as well, including the president's son, twice. So, I mean, a lot of critics would argue that undercuts your argument there are two systems of justice.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
If you want to try to –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me – can I follow up with you –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
I want to answer that. If you want to – if you want to make that case, the American people are very smart. They know that they tried to give Hunter Biden a sweetheart deal. We've heard from multiple IRS blowers –
KRISTEN WELKER:
He's been indicted twice, Congresswoman –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
But it was because of a judge that threw out a sweetheart deal that was negotiated on Joe Biden's behalf. Joe Biden and the Department of Justice have been withheld from going after the Biden crime family, which Joe Biden sits atop of.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Other – other – other top Democrats have been indicted, as well. But we have a lot to get to, so I want to stay on track. You mentioned Pennsylvania. Would you vote to certify and will you vote to certify the results of the 2024 election, no matter what they show?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, I voted not to certify the state of Pennsylvania because, as we saw in Pennsylvania and other states across the country, that there was unconstitutional acts circumventing the state legislature and unilaterally changing election law.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about 2024 –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What about 2024, Congresswoman –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
We will see if this is a legal and valid election. What we're seeing so far is that Democrats are so desperate, they're trying to remove President Trump from the ballot. That is a suppression of the American people. And the Supreme Court is taking that case up in February. That should be a 9-0 to allow President Trump to appear on the ballot, because that's the American people's decision to make this November –
KRISTEN WELKER:
And the matter is, of course, halted pending that appeal, as you say. But just to be very clear, I don't hear you committed to certifying the election results. Will you only commit to certify the results of former President Trump wins –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
If they're constitutional. If they –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does that mean if Former President Trump wins –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
No, it means if they are constitutional. What we saw in 2020 was unconstitutional circumventing of the – of the Constitution, not going through state legislatures when it comes to changing election law. And we're seeing this in my home state of New York, Kristen. We are seeing Democrats try to steal the election and illegally gerrymander congressional districts that we fairly won and are fair lines. So, I see this at a very local level as well as the unconstitutional overreach we saw at the national level in 2020.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to move on to the university presidents, but just to put a fine point on this, Mr. Trump, his allies did take their case, their concerns about the election to court more than 60 times. They lost every time. Mr. Trump hired two independent firms to investigate that. They came up short as well as the federal agency responsible for overseeing election security, CISA, said that the 2020 election was the most secure in American history. But let's move on to the university presidents –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, let me make a final point, and I think it's important, because the American people understand that it was not a fair election. We had unconstitutional overreach. And that was why I objected to certain states when it came to my constitutional responsibility as a member of Congress. I'm going to always stand up for the Constitution and make sure that we have strong election integrity. And the real threat to democracy is Joe Biden and Democrats who are attempting to remove President Trump from the ballot, because Joe Biden knows he can't win at the ballot box.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Again, there's – theres’s no evidence of coordination between Biden and DOJ, but let's talk about the university presidents, because, of course, the president of Harvard, Claudine Gay, resigned this week after this exchange that went viral that you had with her and the other presidents of some of the top universities, in which you pressed them on their response to antisemitic speech on campuses. Let's take a look.
[START TAPE]
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
And Dr. Gay, at Harvard, does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment, yes or no?
CLAUDINE GAY:
It can be, depending on the context.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, of course, she was criticized for that response. She has since come under some scrutiny for allegations of plagiarism. She's resigned amidst all of that. What was your reaction when you learned she was resigning?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
It was long overdue. She should have resigned immediately following the hearing. And, of course, this follows the resignation of Liz Magill, the Penn president, who also answered, almost verbatim, the same way that the Harvard former president did, as well. And so did the MIT president, I might add. And I've called for all three of their resignations. It's not just me who called for the resignations. We passed a vote, bipartisan, who called for the resignation on the floor of Congress. But I want to take you a little bit into that hearing, Kristen. That was the last question of the hearing, and I tried to structure the question in a way that was a moral question and not political. And it was a moral question. And I was expecting them to answer, "Yes." And I was astonished in real time that they said it depends on the context. You put up three of my constituents, a farmer, a manufacturer, and a suburban mom, they know how to answer the question correctly. It is – it was the most morally bankrupt testimony I've heard ever in Congress, and that's why it's the most viewed testimony ever.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me let you respond to what Claudine Gay has written in the New York Times. She says, "The campaign against me was about more – about more than one university and one leader. This was merely a single skirmish in the broader war to unravel public faith in pillars of American society." Is she right? How do you respond to her?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, I would respond that she failed to stand up for Jewish students on campus who have been facing antisemitic attacks, who have been facing physical assault. We've seen that footage. We've heard that directly from students on campus. We've also heard faculty concerns about her tenure, and her position, and her lack of academic integrity. But it really goes back to protecting Jewish students. And, frankly, when it comes to Harvard, the only time that Harvard has pled for academic freedom or freedom of speech was when it comes to the genocide of the Jewish people. That is inherently unfit for a person to be president of a university. It is part of a broader issue at these schools, which is why our investigation is so important. We're going to look at DEI, which inherently has refused to bring up concerns from Jewish students of the rise of antisemitic attacks. We're going to look at foreign funding as well as taxpayer funding and the governance of these universities. You saw that these boards doubled down to support these university professors despite the morally bankrupt testimony.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to ask you – you talk about moral clarity. I want to ask you about something that Former President Trump recently said. He referred to migrants as, quote, "poisoning the blood of our country." This is language that Biden campaign, others says, quote, "is parroting Adolf Hitler." Are you comfortable with former President Trump's comments?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, yet again, we have the media, which is so biased, which is reiterating whatever the talking points the Biden campaign is giving.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm giving you the opportunity to respond –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Let me be clear –
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm just giving you the opportunity to respond –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
– our border crisis – our border crisis is poisoning Americans through fentanyl. It is poisoning people, including in my district, who are dying from overdoses of fentanyl. And you know what? Because of Joe Biden's wide-open border, that executive actions he took on day one. So, yes, I stand by President Trump. And President Trump also has –
KRISTEN WELKER:
And his words?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Yes. He has the strongest record when it comes to supporting the Jewish people and supporting the state of Israel, whether you look at the historic Abraham Accords or whether you look at the ability for Jewish students to sue and stand up for equal treatment at schools under the Title VI executive order that President Trump put into place, not Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, again, I just am allowing you to respond to what has been said, because you are one of former President Trump's staunchest defenders. What do you say to your critics who've argued that you're holding the presidents of these universities to a higher standard than former President Trump?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
These university presidents answered the question, "Does calling for the genocide of Jews violate your university's code of conduct?" They said it depends on the context. And even in the case of the Penn president, they said it would have to take a step towards conduct. Those – that testimony speaks for itself. It was morally bankrupt. It was viewed by over 1 billion people in less than a week. And when you are the president of these universities, you need to show moral leadership as well as academic leadership, and they have absolutely failed. And what was interesting, Kristen, is they did not even realize in the moment, what you can't see in that hearing, in the video, is there were Jewish students from each of those schools. And, from our vantage point, where I was seated, they were physically shaken by those answers. So, they're unfit to be those presidents, and these schools need to do a lot of soul searching to make sure that they have morally fit leaders as university presidents, which is why our investigation is important.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Again, just on this issue of moral clarity, are you applying the same standards to your own party?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Absolutely. House Republicans stand strongly when it comes to condemning antisemitism. And let's be clear, Kristen. Over 100 Democrats in the House voted against condemning antisemitism, whereas it got universal support among House Republicans. When we put the resolution on the floor calling for the resignation, House Republicans voted in support of that, and so did a fair number of Democrats, but there were a number of Democrats who did not vote in support of it. The rise in antisemitism is an issue on the left. And you know who hasn't spoken out loudly and clearly calling for the resignation of those presidents, was Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The White House did speak out very firmly against the statements –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
But Joe – but Joe Biden did not –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– that were made. The White –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
It did not come from Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The White House did immediately –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
I credit Doug Emhoff, the second gentleman –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– speak out about it, yes.
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
– for speaking out and the press secretary did. But the president of the United States did not.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
And he was a teacher at Penn, and he could have spoken out, and he should have spoken out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk very quickly about what's happening on Capitol Hill. As you know, the Senate locked in these fierce negotiations over the border and border security. Congresswoman, if they reach a deal on border security that the House does not believe goes far enough, are you prepared to shut down the government over that?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, let's take a step back, Kristen. It is Joe Biden who would rather shut down the government than secure the border. Joe Biden and Chuck Schumer in the Senate have failed to take up our Secure the Border Act, which we passed. It has strong policies returning to the very effective border security policies of President Trump, including construction of a border wall, ending catch and release, returning to Remain in Mexico. And the Senate negotiations are ongoing. We will see what they produce, but it needs to be real border security policies that we know work, which did under the Trump administration. Joe Biden has failed to take that up, and so has the Senate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, are you ruling out supporting a government shutdown, something that you've said you're opposed to in the past –
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
We don't support shutting down the government, but we must secure the border –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you rule it out?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
We must secure the border. That's where the American people are. We're losing our country in front of our very eyes. And, again, I take it to my home state of New York. Every state across the country is a border state. So, the person who's threatening a government shutdown is Joe Biden, who refuses to secure the border. And, again, you have Democrats like in New York City speaking out about this Biden border crisis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Before I let you go, I have to talk to you about your future. Former President Trump, in his interview with me, said he, quote, "likes the concept of picking a woman as his vice president." If called upon, would you serve as his vice president?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, I, of course, would be honored to serve in any capacity in a Trump administration. I'm proud to be the first member of Congress to endorse his reelection. I'm proud to be a strong supporter of President Trump, and he's going to win this November.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Have you spoken to the former president about the possibility of running as his VP pick?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
I'm not going to get into the content of my conversation with President Trump. I talk to him frequently. We've been focused on winning. There's so much work to do as the House Republican Conference chair, as the reproductive for New York's 21st congressional district. And we need to make sure that President Trump is in the strongest position to win in the general election. That's what I've been focused on, and that's what I'm going to remain focused on –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to put a very fine point on it, it sounds like you're saying if he were to ask you, the answer would be yes?
REP. ELISE STEFANIK:
Well, I've said for a year now I'd be honored to serve in the next Trump administration. But I'm focused on doing my job right now, which is a really important role as the conference chair and as, most importantly, the representative for the people of New York 21.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congresswoman, Chairwoman Elise Stefanik, thank you very much. Thanks for being here in person. We really appreciate it. And when we come back, President Biden's 2024 campaign is off and running. I'll talk to his deputy campaign manager, Quentin Fulks. That's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. As President Biden ramps up his general election campaign, there are new warning signs. The Washington Post reporting former President Obama has raised questions about the structure of President Biden's reelection campaign. Two sources confirmed to NBC News that Obama and Biden met over lunch in December and discussed the campaign, with Obama expressing deep concern about Mr. Trump's political strength. Underscoring the urgency, one source telling me, "This is an all-hands-on-deck moment." Joining me now is the president's deputy campaign manager, Quentin Fulks. Quentin Fulks, welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
QUENTIN FULKS:
Thank you for having me, Kristen. It's a pleasure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is a pleasure to have you. It's a busy one. Look, if you look at some of the pollings if the election were held today, President Biden is struggling in some of the battleground states that propelled him to the White House. I guess the question that a lot of Democrats have, a lot of questions that his supporters have is: Why does he appear to be struggling against the GOP front-runner who's been indicted four times?
QUENTIN FULKS:
Well, first of all, let's take a look at the polls. First of all, polls don't vote. Voters do. 2020, 2022, 2023, what do they all have in common – aside from beginning with a two and a zero? It's the fact that Democrats were behind in the polls and took it to Republicans on Election Day in every single one of those years, under the leadership of President Joe Biden and his agenda. And at the end of the day, you know, the president just – Friday – made the case that this is an election about democracy and freedom, and that the choice is clear. Our campaign is focused on making that choice clear to the American people. The president did that Friday at Valley Forge. And we're looking forward to continuing that message directly to voters that matter the most and have the most at stake tomorrow in South Carolina.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you talk about that speech on Friday. I've been talking to a lot of Democratic sources who say they wish they had seen that fire, that urgency from President Biden out on the campaign trail months ago. How do you respond to those Democrats who say, "He's getting a late start here?"
QUENTIN FULKS:
Well, look, we have to build the campaign that we need to build in order to be competitive heading into 2024, and that's what our mindset has been. President Biden's mindset for the past several months has been continuing to do the work for the American people, continuing to lower costs, continuing to make sure that job creation is up month over month, continuing to drive down unemployment in the communities that need it the most. And so that's where his focus is. When it comes to the campaign, the president has been staunch and out and about as has the VP. And we're going to continue to make that case, again, that this is a choice in an election about freedom and democracy, with President Biden focused on the future of America and Donald Trump focused on only himself.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I have to ask you about this new reporting in the Washington Post this weekend that former President Barack Obama raised concerns about the structure of President Biden's campaign over this lunch in December. The Post writing, "Obama grew animated in discussing the 2024 election and former President Donald Trump's potential return to power, one of the people said, and has suggested to Biden's advisors that the campaign needs more top-level decision-makers at its headquarters in Wilmington.” I should note that NBC News has confirmed that lunch, has confirmed Obama's deep concerns about Mr. Trump's strength. How is the campaign responding to former President Obama?
QUENTIN FULKS:
Well, look, we're going to continue to do what we need to do in order to be competitive and in order to make sure we're growing the infrastructure that we need to win. President Obama and President Biden talk frequently, as do the campaign and former operatives from President Biden's administration and his campaign. But the one thing is that we're both aligned on the fact that we have to push back on MAGA extremists and the threat that they pose to freedom and democracy, and so we're focused on doing just that. The president has been very clear that the experience he got as VP serving with President Obama has been critical to the experience that he brings to the job and what he's been able to accomplish. But we're united in the fact that we have to do everything we can to push back on Donald Trump and the threat that he poses to democracy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But does the campaign see this warning by former President Obama as a wake-up call? Will there be structural changes to the campaign?
QUENTIN FULKS:
Look, our campaign has been awake since the president announced in April, which is why we've come out of the gate swinging. It's why we’ve put innovate organizing programs in place to begin to communicate with voters on the ground, which is why we've made investments into constituency media – the largest investment to voters of color, Hispanic voters, young voters, than any other presidential campaign in history – and now we're in the phase where more Americans are paying attention to what's going on. And that is why we're making the choice. The president's speech at Valley Forge was the first of that. We'll do it again tomorrow in South Carolina. And we're going to continue to make that case to the American people. Because we are running this campaign and organizing it as though democracy is on the ballot. Because that's what's at stake this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You talk about democracy being on the ballot. Some top Democratic lawmakers say, "Okay, good to be focused on former President Trump, but you've got to talk about what a second Biden agenda would look like.” What would on day one President Biden's top priority be?
QUENTIN FULKS:
Well, look, the president announced this campaign with the moniker of "Finish the job, and protecting freedom and democracy." So when we talk about that, let's look at it. First of all, Roe. The president has been adamant that we need to restore Roe. It is unfathomable that women today wake up in a country with less rights than their ancestors had years ago. Number two, the president has already done a lot to prevent gun violence. He passed the bipartisan Safer Communities Act. He's established an office for gun violence prevention. But we have to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. Three, the fact that millions of Americans are still paying thousands of dollars a month for medicine – a lifesaving drug that a patent was sold for $1, for insulin. We have to cap the cost of insulin for everyone. And then number four, the president has already forgiven over $132 billion for student loan debt for 3.6 million Americans, and there's billions more to be forgiven. And so that's what the president means by "finishing the job." And that's some of the things that I think you can expect from a second Biden-Harris administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You just heard my interview with Chairwoman Elise Stefanik. She – as former President Trump is dubbing the indictments against Mr. Trump as the "Biden indictments." You heard our robust exchange there. Do you expect President Biden to start to more forcefully speak out about those allegations against him? So far, he's largely left that to the sideline.
QUENTIN FULKS:
Look, the president understands that this election isn't about him. It's about the American people. That's the first and most important difference between President Biden and former defeated President Trump. But look, I'm not sure that this, "I know you are, but what am I?" situation is going to work when it comes to democracy and this argument that they're trying to put. This is nothing more than a pathetic failed attempt by former President Trump and his accolades to try to make sure that they are leveling the playing field for something that's fatal for President Trump's administration and his presidency.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You're making that argument. But will President Biden start to make that argument –
QUENTIN FULKS:
I think we've already seen him –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– on the campaign trail?
QUENTIN FULKS:
– make that argument. He made it Friday when he laid out the case that Donald Trump isn't concerned about the freedoms and the future of American citizens. He's only concerned about his own self and what he wants to do. He wants to win again, not to pass an agenda. He wants to win again so that he can enact revenge and retribution on his political enemies. That's a key difference. This isn't that simple – or hard of a choice to make and for American voters to see. And we're going to point that out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Quentin Fulks, thank you so much for your time this morning –
QUENTIN FULKS:
Thank you--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Really appreciate it. When we come back the risks of a wider war in the Middle East are increasing. I'll talk to Israel President Isaac Herzog. That's next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in the Middle East for the fourth time since the October attack on Israel three months ago in effort to prevent escalating tensions from breaking into a wider war after a series of regional attacks. Joining me now is the president of Israel, Isaac Herzog. Mr. President, welcome to Meet the Press. Thank you for being here.
ISAAC HERZOG:
Thank you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to start right there, with concerns about those regional attacks. Obviously, Secretary Blinken is there aiming to de-escalate some of the tensions within the region. But talk to Americans, if you will. How concerned should they be about this escalating into a wider war that could ultimately ensnare Americans, as well?
ISAAC HERZOG:
So, look, Kristen, we – today is January 7th. The barbaric attack against Israel by Hamas terrorists was launched exactly three months ago, on October 7th. It's a day that shall be and will be remembered in infamy, because, clearly, it is a watershed in world affairs and regional affairs. It's not only a war between Israel and Hamas. It has to do with the values of the free world as we see them all throughout. Let me show you a document, a highly confidential, strictly confidential document which we just unraveled from the Hamas headquarters. It's a brochure which is a directive by the commanders of Hamas as to how to manage summer camps for children in order to disseminate the values of jihad. It says it clearly, "to disseminate the values of jihad and the values of the resistance," meaning terror, "and how to make it a militarized society." And it's all over the Gaza Strip, meaning they take the kids – whilst we all know what summer camps are and what they're aimed for, and what a wonderful experience it is to – to enable youngsters, kids, and adults – I mean adolescents, to become citizens of the free world with liberties, with happiness, with joy, with sports. Here, the – the entire aim is to make them terrorists. And this is exactly the watershed situation in this – in this war. And that is why it impacts the entire world, because when you have an empire of evil emanating from Tehran with arms in Syria, in Lebanon, in Iraq, and in Yemen, which increases the cost of living of every American because of hijacking in the high seas, it means it's a regional battle with impacts on the entire global situation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Herzog, we appreciate your sharing that new document with us. We should note NBC News has not been able to review the document or confirm it, but we appreciate that. I want to ask you about these attacks that we've seen within the region. Israel's security chief has said that Israel is determined to, quote, "kill Hamas' leaders in every location in the world, including Qatar, Turkey, and Lebanon, even if it takes many years." Is there any country – is there any place you won't go to track down Hamas' leadership?
ISAAC HERZOG:
So, we are determined to undermine the ability of Hamas to operate terror throughout the world and, of course, in Israel. And it's – and it’s a network of terrorists all over the world and in the region. For that matter, we're cooperating very closely with our allies. Tomorrow's visit by Secretary Blinken is another expression of the huge impact and importance that the United States places as to the direction and the exit from this conflict by making sure that Hamas will not be able to repeat these abhorrent acts and also to project a future for the region, a hopeful future for the region, something which President Biden is utterly committed to. And I'm utterly grateful to him on the behalf of the people of Israel for his steadfast stand as well as his projecting his vision to the region.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This week, top Israeli Cabinet members called for the resettlement of Palestinians out of Gaza. Some of the most striking language that we saw comes from the heritage minister, who said Friday about the people of Gaza, quote, "You will not be here. You will not live by our side, and that is the main point. We should encourage them to leave the place." Two other Cabinet ministers have made similar statements. Is this forced displacement of Palestinians from Gaza the official position of the Israeli government, Mr. President?
ISAAC HERZOG:
Absolutely, absolutely not. Totally not agreed or is not the position of the Israeli government, or the Israeli parliament, or the Israeli public. But we are a democracy, and in democracy, you have a variety of ideas. And in a variety of ideas, and in a society – society where free speech is the basis of our national DNA, people can say whatever they want. So, in a – in a Cabinet of 30 ministers where it's not the security Cabinet, a minister can say whatever he wants. I may not like it, but this is Israeli politics. And, by the way, you have in America people who say things which you don't like. But that doesn't mean it's the policy of the administration. So, same goes here. They're – they were – they’re speaking about the willful leaving of the – of the – of the Gaza Strip. But clearly I'm saying outright, officially and unequivocally, this is not the Israeli position. We should remember, however, the national psyche here. We are in deep trauma. In the last three months, we have – we have seen – we have seen so much agony, pain, and sadness. And may I remind all that we still have over 130 Israelis from babies, from toddlers, one of them due to celebrate one year old in a week's time, all the way to 85-year-olds, as well, including people with Holocaust background. So, because of that, our nation – our nation is bereaving, is worried, is agonized, and we are doing whatever we can to do whatever it takes to bring back these hostages.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Prime Minister Netanyahu – you are saying that you don't agree with that position. Prime Minister Netanyahu has not yet spoken out about calls to displace the citizens of Gaza. Does he need to condemn those statements? And is the prime minister the right leader for this moment despite polls showing he's losing the public's confidence?
ISAAC HERZOG:
So, I would say that, as – as the head of state of Israel, I'm not directly involved in the political arena by taking sides. I'm not in charge of the executive, but I do represent the national spirit of Israel from my capacity as president of Israel. I know I’m sure the prime minister will relate to it, undoubtfully. But it is one of the items in the national debate on so many topics, because we are a democracy. But we are focused, really focused, to bring about change in the region. We should remember that in Gaza is a huge state of terror. There is, underneath, hundreds of kilometers of a – a tunnels and a terror establishment, the biggest terror city in the world, which we have to unravel and clean up in order to enable the people of Gaza to go back to their dwellings and move on in a different direction, a direction of peace. Israelis – 250,000 Israelis are evacuated from their homes in the south and in the north. Just about half an hour ago, we were attacked again from Lebanon. A house was demolished in Metula, a 120-year-old, beautiful village on the border. And therefore, you have to understand that whilst we are a small nation and attacked from two corners, north and south, we are at war, we are united, and we are committed to change this equation. And, as such, whilst committed to changing this equation whilst – whilst bereaving, whilst worrying about the hostages, we also have debate within Israeli society. And it's only worthy, and I'm very proud of the fact that we can hold a free and open debate on every topic that matters to our life.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Israeli President Herzog, thank you so very much for joining us this morning. We really appreciate your perspective at this critical time. We hope –
ISAAC HERZOG:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– you'll come back very soon.
ISAAC HERZOG:
It was a pleasure to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you. Well, an honor for us. Thank you.
ISAAC HERZOG:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, with just one week to go before the Iowa caucuses, the GOP candidates are making their final pitches to voters. How important is Iowa to winning the nomination? Some historical perspective is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. With the Iowa caucuses now just over a week away, former President Trump has a commanding lead with Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis in a race for second place. In 2008, then-Senator Barack Obama won Iowa in a pivotal victory for his insurgent campaign, pushing the early favorite, Senator Hillary Clinton, into a third-place finish. Obama joined this program ahead of that contest.
[START TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
Your wife, Michelle Obama, has spent a lot of time campaigning here. And this is what she said: "Iowa will make the difference. If Barack doesn't win Iowa, it's just a dream." This is must-win.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA:
Well, we want – we have to do well in Iowa. Now, keep in mind, when Michelle goes to New Hampshire or South Carolina, she probably says – you know, she probably says the same thing there. The early states are critical to us, because, you know, I am not as well known as Senator Clinton and some of the other candidates in this race.
TIM RUSSERT:
But, Senator, it's must – it's must-win.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA:
Oh, well, look, there is no doubt that we have to do well in Iowa. If we do not do well in Iowa, and New Hampshire, and South Carolina –
TIM RUSSERT:
The race is over.
SEN. BARACK OBAMA:
Yeah. Well, I think that's true for any of the candidates.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, former President Obama is warning President Biden about the perils he's facing in 2024. Will he listen? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News White House Correspondent Mike Memoli, Peggy Noonan, columnist for the Wall Street Journal; and Kimberly Atkins Stohr, senior opinion writer for The Boston Globe. Thank you all for being here on this first show of the new year. Mike, let me start with you. You've got some new reporting. Obviously, you saw this robust back and forth with Congresswoman Stefanik.
MIKE MEMOLI:
Wow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
With Quentin Fulks.
MIKE MEMOLI:
Uh-huh.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Everyone is getting into fight mode, heading into 2024. And President Biden's going to be ramping up.
MIKE MEMOLI:
Yeah, that's right, Kristen. I mean, I've covered this president, his team a long time. They feel very much that they are confident in their theory of the case. They pride themselves, really, on taking the long view, of seeing the signal through the noise. But I think it's one thing to discount the criticism, the advice from a Democratic donor, a strategist, a lawmaker. You can't when it's coming from the former president of the United States, Barack Obama. And I think you're seeing, now, this acceleration, the campaign calls it a sharpening of that strategy, to respond to what we're seeing from those donors, that concern. And so, you kicked that off on Friday with that speech I covered near Valley Forge. And I'm told by Biden campaign advisors this is a new, ramped-up tempo that you're going to see for the next few weeks, leading up to what they see as a really critical opportunity for the president to make the case for a second term but also to speak to that concern about whether he is up for this fight. The State of the Union Address in two months will be the biggest audience he has throughout the year to show that he is up for this, and they plan to deliver on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, the State of the Union address, no doubt, is going to be one of the most important speeches – if not the most important speech – of his political life. Kimberly, I mean, do there need to be structural changes if Former President Obama is calling for those inside his campaign?
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Look, the Biden campaign has to do whatever it can to do two big things: it's to reenergize the people who were energized in 2020. I have talked to young people in my life who were very motivated. They were mobilized in 2020. They were voting like their futures depended on it. And they themselves admit they are less engaged this year. They need to turn that around. And they also need to rebut the narrative that Donald Trump is creating, with the help of people like Elise Stefanik, saying that it is Biden that is undemocratic because of these challenges. They need to be able to do both things – both as an administration, do that work, but also, as a campaign, really point out why Donald Trump's rhetoric is so dangerous.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Peggy, set the stage, if you would, for this extraordinary moment that we are in. What we heard this morning, for example, from Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, which undoubtedly will be what we hear from Trump and his surrogates out on the campaign trail if he wins the nomination, tries to take on President Biden.
PEGGY NOONAN:
Yeah. I think we're all so fascinated by Elise Stefanik this morning. First of all, man, she comes in hot. She comes in like a hot jet that possibly might be overshooting the airfield. When she called the January 6th, those who've been arrested and/or convicted, hostages? Oh, my gosh. That's going full bore. That's doubling down. Not saying that of course we mean to accept and intend to accept the outcome of the 2024 election, but saying sort of, "Well, it's very much in doubt. We'll see," sort of doing that jarring thing. That was startling, and I think that is part of the mood, as you say, that we'll be seeing in 2024 on the trail. I will say, for Elise Stefanik, her superpower is that she immediately goes to policy. Not so much her superpower as a Republican thing. Policy, policy, policy. The lovely Democratic guest you had this morning was more politics and process. Do you know what I mean?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes.
PEGGY NOONAN:
They are two different moods, and they're two different importances, and the first probably has a bit of an advantage.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's such a fascinating point, particularly as we head into Iowa, Kimberly, eight days away. What are you watching for?
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Yeah. I'm not sure I'm watching for that policy. And I'm not sure policy is what is landing for her audience. She was talking about the weaponization of the federal government, which, of course, is something Trump has promised to do, yet they accuse Biden of doing. She was talking about how the most-viewed testimony ever was her questioning of Dr. Gay, sort of hearkening on the, "Oh, I got the biggest crowds." She is Trumping her way to this, hopefully, it seems, VP position, running mate position. And she is going in with the full MAGA red meat. And I think that is exactly what she thinks it's going to take to help gin up the odds.
PEGGY NOONAN:
Fair enough. What you say is true, but she pounds on the illegal immigration, which is huge in America, is an issue. She pounds on this new thing, which is not attacks on institutions but on specific institutions that Republicans and conservatives believe have been out there for at least 20 years. That's going to be big. So, she does hit on policy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
There's no doubt about that. Go ahead, Mike.
MIKE MEMOLI:
When you talk about what you're seeing in Iowa, you know, listening to Quentin Fulks, it's clear they view the Trump base as loyal, as unmovable. I think that's the only thing the Trump and Biden things probably agree on at this point. And that's why you're going to see Trump this week not in Iowa but in a D.C. federal courthouse, one of the many court proceedings that he's dealing with.
And that speaks to, I think, the challenge for the rest of the Republican field, right? As we saw in these conversations Dasha Burns was having with the candidates, they're struggling not necessarily to make a case for themselves but to make the case against Donald Trump. And that's why, I think, eight days until Iowa, eight days after that is New Hampshire, we might have the earliest start of the general election, and why the VP auditions started today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, it did. Certainly did--
KIMBERLY ATKINS STOHR:
Wow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mike, very quickly, are we going to hear Biden talk more about Trump's legal problems?
MIKE MEMOLI:
Well, they view Trump as a legal drama, and they think Biden's job is to prosecute the case as a candidate, not to deal with the legal drama.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Peggy, we are, it seems like, watching a fight for second place. What are you going to be watching for for Iowa in terms of that second-place finish? Does third, fourth have to drop out? Does this field have to narrow?
PEGGY NOONAN:
We'll see. I mean, I'm wondering who's going to drop out first, but someone's going to have to become the Trump slayer. And there'll be Trump and the Trump slayer, and somebody's going to have to drop out or, like 2016, nothing will work in opposing Trump. Funny thing about Iowa, let me say quickly: It doesn't seem big. Big policy speeches, big declarations, big policy fights. In a funny way, it seems smaller and, "What do we do about Donald?" Keeps it small.
KRISTEN WELKER:
That's the question, the lingering question. Thank you all. That is all for today. Thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.