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Rex Tillerson Says He Knew Nothing of Foreign Influence Plans

The former secretary of state testified in the trial of Thomas Barrack, who is accused of acting as an agent for the United Arab Emirates during the Trump administration.

Rex Tillerson during his confirmation hearing in 2017. Mr. Tillerson testified on Monday in the trial of Thomas J. Barrack Jr.Credit...Doug Mills/The New York Times

Former Secretary of State Rex W. Tillerson on Monday told jurors in the trial of Thomas J. Barrack Jr., a private equity investor accused of secretly working for the United Arab Emirates, that despite being America’s top diplomat, he was unaware of any back-channel dealings with the oil-producing Gulf state.

Mr. Tillerson — a former head of Exxon Mobil and a relative outsider in the Trump administration — testified that he tried, in his brief and tumultuous stint in government, to keep the nation’s foreign policy above board by, in part, pushing for checks on outside influence. But in a sometimes slapdash and inscrutable administration, the influence of outside advisers at times frustrated those efforts.

Prosecutors have accused Mr. Barrack, a longtime friend of Mr. Trump, of acting as an illegal agent of the Emiratis, seeking to influence the Trump campaign and administration and funneling secret information to the Gulf state.

Mr. Tillerson’s three-hour testimony amounted to a reunion in federal court in Brooklyn of influential figures in the Trump administration, as well as a refresher course in Middle East political crises during Mr. Trump’s first year in office. After Mr. Tillerson was fired in March 2018 — over Twitter — having failed to establish himself as Mr. Trump’s chief diplomat, he returned to Texas as a retiree. Aside from a commencement address that spring, animated by a veiled rebuke of Mr. Trump, Mr. Tillerson has rarely spoken publicly about his experience in Washington.

On Monday, Mr. Tillerson, who now wears a full white mustache, testified that he had spoken with Mr. Barrack only a handful of times, including once when Mr. Barrack called him to ask about a possible ambassadorship, and that he was unaware of any side channels that Mr. Barrack had with Mr. Trump. Asked by a prosecutor if he were aware that Mr. Barrack had passed sensitive information to a foreign government, Mr. Tillerson said he was not.

That testimony stood in contrast to the testimony and evidence provided so far in the trial, which began with opening statements on Sept. 21. Jurors have heard expert testimony about the United Arab Emirates and have seen hundreds of emails and text messages exchanged among Mr. Barrack, Emirati officials and Trump campaign officials in the lead-up to the 2016 presidential election.

Prosecutors have accused Mr. Barrack of using his sway with Mr. Trump to advance the interests of the Emiratis, serving as a secret back channel for communications without disclosing his efforts to the attorney general, as the government contends he should have. He faces nine counts, including acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign government, obstruction of justice and making false statements. Prosecutors say Mr. Barrack repeatedly lied to F.B.I. agents when questioned in 2019 about his dealings with the Emiratis.

Evidence so far shows a frenzy of correspondence about media appearances and policy positions, with Mr. Barrack and his assistant seeking regular feedback from the Emiratis. Mr. Barrack’s lawyers have called the government’s accusations “ridiculous” and have said he was acting on his own accord, as a businessman with extensive international interests, not as a secret agent.

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Mr. Barrack, center, leaving the Federal District Court in Brooklyn in September. Mr. Barrack is accused of acting as an illegal agent of the United Arab Emirates while seeking to influence the Trump campaign and administration.Credit...Jefferson Siegel for The New York Times

Mr. Tillerson is well versed in the international politics of energy. His selection as secretary of state was met with skepticism over his connections in Russia and other energy-producing states, including with Middle Eastern leaders, formed over his decades as a deal maker in the private sector.

Mr. Tillerson’s tenure at the State Department was rocky from the start, marked by low morale and an exodus of officials. Some of his troubles emanated from the White House itself, which often preferred to call its own shots on engagement with foreign officials, rather than check with the State Department.

On the witness stand, Mr. Tillerson repeatedly said he was not aware of the details of what Mr. Trump heard from his outside advisers on foreign policy, including Mr. Barrack and Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and adviser.

Mr. Tillerson described a spring 2017 meeting in Washington between Mr. Trump and Mohammed bin Salman — then the deputy crown prince of Saudi Arabia. At the time, Mr. Tillerson recalled on the witness stand, the lines of succession in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates were “evolving quickly,” as younger members of the royal families positioned themselves to take on more power.

“I thought he should not take that meeting,” Mr. Tillerson testified, saying he was concerned it might suggest that Mr. Trump was putting a thumb on the scales for the ambitious prince. “The United States should stay neutral,” Mr. Tillerson said.

Another challenge emerged in June 2017, when Gulf countries including Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates accused Qatar of supporting terrorism. Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, Egypt, Bahrain and Yemen launched a blockade of Qatar, creating a confrontation among some of America’s most important allies.

In the blockade’s early days, there were differing views about what prompted the action, Mr. Tillerson testified. On cross-examination, he said Mr. Kushner was among those who thought Qatar was sponsoring terrorism and that there was substantial media coverage of the disagreements in the administration.

While the State Department ultimately “found no validity to the claims” of the Gulf countries and blamed the intransigence of Saudi Arabia for the standoff, Mr. Trump heaped praise on Saudi’s monarchs.

Asked in court on Monday if Mr. Barrack was involved in discussions about the Qatari blockade, Mr. Tillerson said “not to my knowledge.”

The former secretary of state did not elaborate in depth on his clashes with Mr. Trump — even when one of Mr. Barrack’s lawyers, Randall Jackson, prompted him on cross-examination with an infamous tweet in which Mr. Trump appeared to contradict Mr. Tillerson on negotiations with North Korea: “I told Rex Tillerson our wonderful Secretary of State that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man.”

That tweet, Mr. Tillerson said, “does not represent a disagreement between the president and I.”

Mr. Jackson continued, asking if “on some occasions, you were playing bad cop, good cop with the president.”

“Or vice versa,” Mr. Tillerson said.

Mr. Jackson asked about occasions in which Mr. Trump did not take Mr. Tillerson’s recommendations. “He is the president of the United States, and that’s fine,” Mr. Tillerson said.

Rebecca Davis O'Brien covers law enforcement and courts in New York. She previously worked at The Wall Street Journal, where she was part of a team that won the 2019 Pulitzer Prize in National Reporting for stories about secret payoffs made on behalf of Donald Trump to two women.  More about Rebecca Davis O’Brien

A version of this article appears in print on  , Section A, Page 17 of the New York edition with the headline: Tillerson Testifies in Foreign Influence Trial. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

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