radical skepticism bot; fandom crone; meme junkie; code monkey; bayesian asian

"I have never in my life loved any people or collective – neither the German people nor the French nor the American nor the working class or anything of that. I indeed only love my friends, and the only kind of love I know of or believe in, is the love of persons." - Hannah Arendt

"keep forgetting that you're not American originally and that makes the Amish fetishism so much funnier" – tumblr user discoursedrome
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argentina

Here is my story of Argentina. My credentials are that I have I spent the first three hours of my flight to Argentina reading its Wikipedia page plus followup google search results.

Argentina was rich. Then it became poor for no clear reason. It could become very rich again.

Let’s start with the last one.

Argentina is a major agricultural exporter that’s not even tapping its full biocapacity. Without making any prescriptive statements about whether they should, it’s descriptively true that they could be leaning on their natural resources much harder than they currently are.

The wind potential of the Patagonia region (southern third of Argentina) could in theory provide enough electricity to sustain a country five times more populous. But the infrastructure isn’t there to pipe it where it needs to go. Argentina is very urbanized, with 92% of its population in cities. (This is actually weird – if you look at countries ordered by urbanization, you get a bunch of tiny or fake countries like Bermuda or Macau, and then central category member countries like Uruguay, Israel, Argentina, and Japan.)

Argentina had a pretty good nuclear program. Decent record as a locus of scientific progress despite all the political problems and crumbling infrastructure. It’s got a high literacy rate.

It kind of reminds me of… (person who’s only been to 7 cities voice) Berkeley?

Okay. Now let’s skip back to 1861. Argentina has won independence from the Spanish Empire. It’s about to get very Italian in here.

At time of independence, Argentina had the familiar-looking South American mix of white+native+black. But soon after independence the state started (0) genociding/expanding into the south (1) enacting liberal economic policies, and (2) encouraging European immigration. Italians liked this idea for some reason, so today, 60% of Argentinians are full or part Italian.

This wave of immigration changed Argentinian society enormously. In this period, Argentina became very wealthy and productive. In 1910 it was the seventh richest country in the world.

Twenty years later, dissatisfaction over the Great Depression fueled a coup and kicked off 50-70 years of political instability.

I like this graph. Look at the Y axis values – this is a log graph.

image

I have no clean explanation for what happened, but I can at least describe what happened after 1930.

In between coups, Argentina stays neutral in both world wars up until the US pressured it into declaring war on the Axis Powers in 1945. But then the Europe part of WWII ended a month later, so they probably didn’t have to do too much. In 1946, Peron takes power.

(Sidenote: why did so many Nazis famously flee to Argentina? Argentina had lots of German immigrants & close ties to Germany. Peron, who’d found Hitler’s ideology appealing since he was a military attaché in Italy during WWII, straight out ordered diplomats and intelligence officers to establish escape routes for Nazis, especially those with military/technical expertise.)

I still don’t know much about Peron. There’s the socialist stuff: nationalized a lot of industries and improved working conditions. There’s the dictator stuff: beating up and firing people to bring them into line, including university teachers (of course) and union leaders that Peron didn’t like. He was really liked for a while, and then very disliked, and got exiled to Spain after a decade of rule.

Then there’s a phase where no one manages to rule successfully, in part because getting approved by both Peronists and anti-Peronists is hard. This 1955-2003 phase reminds me a lot of Korean history around the same time – lots of military coups and assassinations and journalists getting tortured. Whenever I hit this phase in a country’s Wikipedia page it just reads like TV static, interchangeable variable names swinging in and out of scope… even though there’s got to be more than that.

When I first started reading about US Republicans and Democrats I got really confused because either they had 0 major differences or 70. Now that I’ve been in the States for a decade I have a sense for what major visions and underlying values differences they have, but it’d be hard to explain succinctly or in a way that other people will agree with. So something like that has to have been going on with various flavors of anti, sub, and classic Peronism that’s inscrutable to an outsider who’s spending 3 hours on learning about this.

At some point, comically, Peron comes back, wins an election with his wife as vie president, and dies of a heart attack. His wife takes power and does things like empowering the secret police to destroy her enemies, but girlbosses too close to the sun and is ousted after a year.

All this turmoil flattens out somewhat in 2003. I have no idea what went right. They tried Peronism! They tried anti-Peronism! They tried leftist terrorism and rightist terrorism! They tried OG Peron again! They tried Peron’s third wife! They tried nationalization and privatization! They tried protectionism and not-protectionism!

Nestor Kirchner, whose rule coincided with the improvement, had “neo-Keynesian” policies, but who knows if that was it. He didn’t run for reelection but said “try my wife, she’ll do fine”, and so she won the next cycle. Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner did well enough that she was reelected. People didn’t like her successor and brought her back as a vice president, but there were what sound like normal-for-South-America levels of corruption scandals during much of her time in office, and last month she was sentenced to six years in prison and a lifetime ban from holding public office.

I have a number of hypotheses as to why Argentina crashed so hard when it had and has so many prerequisites for success, and they all sound stupid when I write them out, so I won’t. But I will gesture at my confusion and amazement.

  1. firebatvillain reblogged this from etirabys and added:
    In light of the latest election, thinking about Argentina again and this great post.
  2. mg-dl reblogged this from etirabys
  3. the-pikachu-birb reblogged this from etirabys and added:
    Took me a while to find it but this video explains peron’s first presidency and crisis quite objectively (there’s...
  4. thebeachesofagnes said: This sounds like someone wants to profit from our resources…
  5. kitstacean said: Congratulations on getting linked on AC10, if you’re wondering why there may be more eyes on this suddenly.
  6. randomnumbers751650 said: From what I studied, Argentina specialized in wheat production in the 19th century, and gained a lot of money, enough to build the city of Buenos Aires, but due to falling wheat prices, its rents fell and it embarked in a economic crises in the 1890s, while it never addressing the inequality problem; we can make a parallel to the oil states in the Persian gulf, even if the Argentinian economy is more diverse, but this is why relying on primary products is problematic
  7. aeternatv reblogged this from raginrayguns
  8. businesstiramisu reblogged this from raginrayguns
  9. discoursedrome said: my favourite argentina thing is how they’ve defaulted like three times in the 21st century but people keep buying their bonds for some reason. they sold 100-year bonds and people actually bought them and then they defaulted again like three years later. what’s their secret
  10. raginrayguns reblogged this from etirabys
  11. k-simplex reblogged this from fruityyamenrunner
  12. catchaspark said: @etirabys for sure, lemme know what you think if u do! i’m badly educated on the topic myself for sure
  13. etirabys said: @catchaspark it doesn’t ring a bell but I’ve probably run across it when skimming The CIA’s Greatest Hits. Might read the Wiki page for it (although gulp at that scrollbar), think I have more history context for it now
  14. cleversleazoid said: Tu dato sobre el nazismo en Argentina es importantísimo. Retroalimenta el mito y ayuda a justificar su odio.
  15. catchaspark said: by which i also mean not just “us-backed repression had a negative effect on the economies of latin american countries” but also “that middle foggy bit of the wiki page for a lot of latin american countries turns out to at least in part be so foggy bc a lot of the missing causal links are like ‘30 yrs later the us admitted to backing x coup’”)
  16. catchaspark said: have you read about operation condor? i don’t think that helped
  17. torschlusspanikattack reblogged this from fruityyamenrunner and added:
    Now I’m curious what the hypotheses are from your outsider++ perspective…
  18. etirabys posted this