Brammymiami's avatar

When people show you who they are, believe them. Hamas and Iran have been quite clear - Hamas in their charter, and Iran on X and everywhere else - that they want all Jews dead. Why does the world pretend they don’t know and don’t see this? Screw the BBC, screw apologists in the Squad and on CNN. (Also MSNBC)

Marie's avatar

My daughter texted me this morning to tell me to avoid the news today to spare me the nightmares she knows I experience when viewing such things.

I’m all for making Gaza an uninhabited strip of glass. This has been going on too long and there is literally no other way I can see to end it.

Ray Andrews's avatar

I dunno, Israel could return to its legal borders which would let out most of the steam in the terrorist's boilers. I doubt that Hamas would really change but their main justification -- a legitimate justification -- for their actions would be gone.

HBI's avatar

I don't think memories of 1973 would permit that. Besides which, legal borders? That matters to Jordan and Syria and Egypt, not to Palestinians. When the West Bank was part of Jordan, it wasn't theirs.

The bottom line is that the Palestinian goal is to make Israel unlivable. Population drops beyond a certain point due to emigration to safer locales and the history of Outremer is repeated. Borders would be irrelevant to this, the goal would not change until...to the sea. Just like the Crusaders.

T…

Ray Andrews's avatar

"legal borders? That matters to Jordan and Syria and Egypt, not to Palestinians."

No miracle cure, that's for sure, but still, legalities matter. I'd like to see Israel *actually* holding the moral high ground, not just pretending to. I admit my stance on this is very unusual but my dad inculcated into my formative moral self that stolen land can never be holy land. I think of Abraham purchasing the cave for Sarah's burial -- the sellers praised his honesty.

HBI's avatar

The only difference between 'stolen land' and 'legal borders' is a peace treaty. If you can't get a peace treaty out of the opponent and voluntarily cede land back to them, then that's the moral equivalent of surrender. To people who want to kill you.

Ray Andrews's avatar

I disagree. The legal line is still there and it could be withdrawn to. Peace treaties would be a bit harder and there's ... nuts, how many needed? Gaza/Hamas, West Bank/ PLO, Jordan, Syria ... at least. But surrender? Nope. Once Israel was on land that almost the entire world agrees is hers, she can defend it with vigor. It's bad press when Israelis kill Palestinians on their own land. Much easier when they kill terrorists who are on internationally agreed Israeli land.

Do you remember 1973? Do you know how close Israel came to destruction then? And that was with the current borders. If they had stuck to the 1967 borders, we wouldn't be discussing Israel now.

National survival trumps 'propriety' every time. The disagreement I have about this with you is more succinctly stated than about Israel. Every nation, every people is in a struggle for survival. Time and space do not change this. We may delude ourselves into thinking this not true; but the world will remind us. The Ukraine is rather instructive here.

1 Reply
Oct 8, 2023
at
4:47 PM