my question is -- do i have some kind of pt or some bs. i'm trying to sort out whether we have real democracy at work or some kind of distorted version. i claimed the latter -- whereas jvl seems to be saying 'they've seen it they want it." [aka it's rational] if it's the latter it would give the dems some justification if they needed it to well, do whatever is they need to do to not lose. even if it's real democracy at work -- can the people decide to ditch the republic? they couldn't in 1861 after all. that's precedent ...