"Steve, I'm noticing that you are having an increasingly difficult time treading lightly in the face of absurdity. I understand it, but you know."

😁Well spotted! I was, for unrelated reasons, in a particularly grumpy mood when I had this conversation. I noticed that I was more antagonistic than usual as I revisitied it. But yeah, I must admit, it's also just hard being civil with people who are so outright dishonest. As you say, honesty is the impasse. And dishonesty is one of the few thngs thatmakes me angry.

People like Rob (who aren't even transgender) are making matters worse for *everybody*. Trans people, women, anybody who has even the slightest degree of intellectual honesty. Every time they trot out these ridiculous arguments, they push more people away from any semblance of support for trans people.

I honestly wish we could arrive at a world where trans women could stand at a urinal with their skirt hiked up unabashed. I very strongly suspect we won't. the dishonesty of trans people demanding to be seen as something they're not, while it doesn't usually make me angry, does make me sad.

Trans women are male. Without surgery, they have penises. That makes them different to females and therefore inelligble to be treated identically to them. It also means the violence they might face in male spaces is not a female problem. As you say, if women decide to accomodate trans women un some spaces, great. It's the demands that I find so hard to stomach.