I'm definitely an overthinker, but what has helped me use it as a strength instead of a disadvantage is learning to lean into my thoughts. Thinking about my thoughts is a way to switch from unhelpful ruminating ("I can't stop thinking about how awkward I was!") to "why does it matter to me that I felt awkward? Is awkwardness necessarily a bad thing? Is there any proof that my so called 'awkwardness' devalued the conversation?" The 5x5 rule helps a lot here - will this matter in 5 years? If not, don't spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it.
I like the 5x5 rule, but with people’s attention span these days I think one could shorten that time to “will it matter in 5 days....or even 5 hours”, and not spend more than 5 seconds kicking myself in the head 😆
I've been working on this a lot. Was that awkward? Yes. Does it matter? Probably not. It's helped me to try to notice the other person might be awkward or nervous and realize how much compassion I have for them. And maybe I can feel that for myself. (I'm sure some of that is from reading Kristin Neff's work on self-compassion.)
I love that, Dawn! And isn't it amazing when people are comfortable being their authentic (sometimes awkward) selves? It's admirable! Oh, I'll have to look into her work!
In Internal Family Systems, there’s this idea that we have parts of us who are holding our deepest trauma — they’re called exiles because we exile them from consciousness. They carry our most painful feelings and beliefs, like shame and worthlessness.
When we are awkward or threatened with failure / having these bad feelings or beliefs of the exiles exposed, we have protective parts who go into overdrive, trying to keep us up and out of those bad feelings of the exiles, which exist way down below in the pit of our consciousness.
The parts of us who overthink, in IFS, are called managers. Although the overthinking is extremely painful and frustrating, it is less painful than feeling the deeper pain and shame of the exiles. Therefore, the goal of the managers is simply to keep us up in our heads and out of that deep pit of shame and pain that exists way below in the exiles.
Overthinking will never fully solve the problem of the deeper shame and pain that the exiles carry — it’s just a Band-Aid that helps us get through those patches of bad feelings, with a painful cost.
The long-term solution is to learn how to actually go to the exiles and unburden the shame and pain they carry. Then, when we do or say something weird and awkward, the exiles won’t be so vulnerable to feeling bad about themselves.
Instead of a faux pas triggering a massive spiral of self-criticism and overthinking at a 10/10, it’ll reduce over time to an 8/10, a 6/10, a 4/10. The less shame and pain the exiles carry, the less shame and pain that will rise up whenever something goes wrong in our social life. And then the less the managers have to overthink to protect us from that physical and emotional pain.
For instance, because IFS has absolutely saved my life, and truly helped me reduce the pain and shame of my exiles, I’m able to post here about it, even though I know some people absolutely will criticize me for always posting about IFS. But I am IFS! It’s what saved my life and it’s what I have to offer and I can’t show up authentically and honestly unless I show up with what I have to offer!
When people’s parts criticize me, of course, my managers and exiles feel hurt, but at this point, it’s only at like a 4/10. It is not awesome to be attacked online by strangers I don’t know, but I would rather take the risk of sharing who I really am and participating in this community than hold back what I know and be unexpressed and shut down just because some people have parts that bully other people.
I would not be able to write this post, unless I had unburdened a lot of my exiles who carry shame and the belief that I don’t have a right to show up as who I am.
The reality is that we all have a right to show up just as we are, in all our awkwardness and imperfection and indecision and humanness. We need tools to help our mind find a way to do that. For me, as my offering to the community, IFS is how I’ve learned to do that, and my wish is that I can share my massive knowledge of HOW to transform the mind with IFS in helpful ways. And if IFS is not your cup of tea, please just ignore all my posts!
This is brilliant. I follow Cheri Huber’s Zen model, where these are “voices in the head” to notice but give no power to -- and sometimes I use the enneagram to understand the voices’ dynamics to be free of them. This model is very much what I see going on (I see managers as control freaks) and very helpful to me right now. Thank you!
Thank you. This is brilliant and amazing. I did not know about exiles and managers. Do you know of any books or videos that specifically address this? Thanks so much for sharing. Your posts are great.
Yes, the guy who developed IFS, Richard Schwartz, is the best source for books. I like “Introduction to Internal Family Systems” and his book on relationships, “You’re the One You’ve Been Waiting For” as starting places.
This is amazing, thank you for sharing. I honestly hadn't heard about IFS until an early post from Chris, but it sounds so helpful!! I am glad you're at a 4/10 now. That gives me encouragement. Thank you!
You are the third person I’ve heard speak of IFS. How do I find an IFS therapist? I’ve been in talk therapy for two decades, going in circles albeit with some resolution, but I would like to get to the root of my agony of defeat. Thank you for sharing your valuable opinion.
https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners is the IFS Therapist finder. You can also use the therapist finder on Psychotherapy Today for someone in your area and use "Internal Family Systems" as the search term. Wishing you find someone great!!!
I've been learning over the last year that these are symptoms of trauma (at least for me). I think American society has a LOT of generational trauma that has yet to be unpacked, so it's no surprise that this pattern is so overwhelmingly common.
One strategy I use to break out of the cycle of overthinking is to ask myself, "Is this helpful? How can I spend this energy in a way that is helpful?" And then I go do yoga or some nonsense. :)
Y'all have a good day, I'm going to go think about this comment for the rest of the day. lol
So true. I think we’re all still dealing with COVID trauma as well. Masks. Events canceled. Parents and teachers having to go online. And people aren’t talking much about the trauma. We talk about COVID but society still hasn’t recognized the trauma factor.
It's true that there's not much public discourse, but I know that it's being acknowledged in some circles. Sometimes in humor through art, and sometimes just in conversations with friends. I think society is still reeling, and it will be another couple of years before people start talking about the trauma and healing. (As I recall, it was over a decade before really useful conversations about the trauma of 9/11 started happening. It was talked about, but not in useful ways.)
But it's not just COVID. I buy into the theory that there was a society-wide breakdown in the "chain" of passing down the skills to be a healthy human, probably having something to do with the industrial revolution. So with each generation, trauma just builds up and gets vomited onto the kids of the next generation. It's all been building up for all those years, and we're only now really starting to rediscover those skills (at least as a society... there have always been variations in how functional individual families might be). Reparenting yourself and breaking cycles of dysfunction is a tough thing to do in an era of world-shattering events happening every 2-3 years, so I think people are actually doing a pretty dang good job, overall.
Agh, Chris you’re inside my head too! Just yesterday I had an embarrassing encounter (okay VERY embarrassing) in the grocery store. I had just come from the dentist, spending an hour with the dental hygienist who cleaned my teeth. Very nice woman, very chatty. WEARING A MASK. Then I bumped into “a woman” in the store who said somewhat peevishly, “Don’t you know who I am?!” Uh, no. Not a clue. It was her (without a mask!). I am unable to recognize people with face masks on… and then off. I think it’s related to my ADHD. Or maybe I’m an idiot…
You're definitely not an idiot. As someone who also struggles with that, I'm always struck by how important it is to people to be recognized. Or to remember their names. It's so low on my importance scale, but I know for many it is very meaningful. And I can't recognize people with and without baseball hats. Add in a mask and they might as well be total strangers.
Oh man this is not on you!!!!! It’s not your responsibility be able to see through a mask — you’re not Superman!
This makes me think of a hilarious incident that just happened to me yesterday — I had two people named James who were supposed to come to my house, one on Tuesday, one Wednesday. So this James calls me Tuesday night to say he needs to cancel for Wednesday. But I’m like, we were supposed to meet today. He’s like I don’t think so. I’m like yeah I had it in my calendar and I’m busy all day tomorrow, so it’s definitely today. But thanks for calling me. I appreciate it!
I’m so convincing that he actually believes me, that he missed his Tuesday appointment with me.
I fail to realize 100% that he is the Wednesday James, not the Tuesday James! So I text the Wednesday James a reminder for our appointment and then this morning I get a text back that says — but I called you yesterday to cancel this appointment!
What are the chances of two James on two adjoining days? What the hell! So then I have to text him back and say, oh, my God, I thought you were the other James! Epically ridiculous. He texted me back to say it was a classic misunderstanding. And that is the appropriate response – not some snarky “Don’t you know who I am.” It’s too bad this woman in the mask didn’t have a better sense of humor about being human so that she could just laugh with you about it instead of being all miffed.
For what it’s worth, I’m enjoying the humor of it, and her parts who clearly have some issues with not being recognized need some therapy!
Nope, not an idiot! I'm not the best with names (or faces) either. My worst encounter was at a concert several years ago. I recognized an old friend of my wife's. I am, by no means, a social person, so the fact I found myself walking up to him was a miracle.
We greeted one another and then I said, "I'm sorry, remind me your name again?" He stared at me blankly before saying, "We share the same name. My name is Matt."
some people look ENTIRELY different wearing a mask! this is so understandable. we started going to go to the same restaurant on repeat during peak covid (outdoor dining) times and got to know all of the wait staff. we went away for a few months and came back after the mask mandate had been lifted and it was CRAZY to me how different everyone looked! so anyway, sharing this just to say... I don't think you're an idiot at all. <3
Reading this felt like you have private access to my thoughts ;) It's comforting to know we're not alone. This is exactly how I've self-sabotaged the most, especially when it comes to being visible online. I was scarily close to not hit post on this comment... It shows up for me in writing, I start a sentence or two and then... crickets ;)
My best way so far to move beyond it is to just push the boat out. And tell myself, I give myself permission for this post/line/thing to kind of suck.
I could have written this post! For example, on the weekend I hosted a small gathering with guided conversation (something I'm drawn to doing, and apparently quite good at.) The guests all said how much they enjoyed it BUT, after they all left, I could hardly be in my own mind because the thoughts were so intrusive. Ugh!
I don't overthink. But people always tell me that I do. What they mean is that I think too much, and since for them, thinking too much gives them headaches and usually means worrying, they see overthinking as something negative.
I have stopped caring about what other people think about me a long time ago, most of the time. There is one thing that gets me: if they think that what I said was dumb.
Actually, I need my wife to do some of this worrisome thinking for me. She tells me when I require a haircut or need to trim my beard. She also tells me when I said something awkward and need to apologize. I have externalized my worries, one could say, but it's not that easy.
I have little social skills. Typically, I am nice, but things happen.
Having the ability to think about these things or even notice it is a valuable skill. I could use some of that. But then, overthinkers probably could use some of my trait of not caring.
For me, overthinking is an abusive term. It should be called overworrying. Noise like this disallows and suppresses thinking. Worries "culturally appropriate" the term for something beautiful, our ability to think thoroughly.
There is no way we can overthink. There is no thinking too much. If anything, we suffer from thinking too little, on average. And maybe, the cure would be to start to truly think and deprive your head from all this emptiness and spare time it fills with worries.
I’m busy writing a guide on when overthinking is not overthinking (at least to an autistic mind like mine).
I often think it’s a lazy gaslighting insult used by others who don’t have the patience or interest to hear people out.
- sometimes we need to verbally process something to understand it better. This sounds like “over thinking” but it’s just thinking. Ideally for this it’s great to have a person who gets you or I also know people who can record voice notes to themselves to get through this
- sometimes we need to weigh up the different aspects of an issue before deciding
- sometimes it’s analytical thinking or deductive thinking
Overthinking as a negative, to me, that we prefer to interrupt is either
- if it’s spiralling into a thought spiral that’s leading to increasing anxiety. Interrupting this is easier said than done buts it’s helped me to recognise that this is really the only “overthinking” I tolerate (well ignore but can’t stop!)
- if it’s about decision making but the person already basically knows what they want to do and understands the risks, here just delaying the decision because they’re scared or there’s some external difficulty. This is what I see in coaching a lot.
Yes! I was going to jump in on point 2, so I’ll add in here. Overthinking is not overthinking (for me) when it’s directed in some way - I’ll use the word “reflection”. Consider: what went wrong?; what went right?; how could I have done better?; what can I learn from this experience? What could I do next time (if that’s not covered under how I could do better, or it’s a more appropriate way of working it). This gives me tools to use in similar situations in the future, because thinking on my feet is not a skill I possess. The reflection process, which might be overthinking to someone without my trauma history, is hugely valuable for me in meeting the rest of life as it comes at me.
Oh yes, I am breathing so that means I am overthinking. There is a reason to it though, but that is tied into my trauma and the cycles that play out in my life daily. I am not a good person, I understand this and I am aware of it. However, I also know I am my own worst critic and very down on many things I do. While this is not healthy in the slightest, it also shows me where I am being overcritical and where I am being too harsh on things I did.
I mean, everyone remembers that one time in 3rd grade and that other time in some random Summer, right?
That dreaded spotlight effect in action and in deeds.
My actions. I try everything in my life to counterbalance the bad actions, but I also know at the core of my being I come from an "evil" stock - horrid things this family has done and horrible things I have done to not counter it, such as not testifying against my grandfather when I was 8 for CSA charges and thus letting him off the hook to go damage more lives.
No matter what good I do, I can't counter that. No matter what bad I do, I am not as bad as my grandfather - but I know I can easily become him if I don't pay attention.
What if your 8 year old was doing the best they could? I know I'm just offering an opinion here, and it may be unwanted, but I'm trudging forward anyway. I don't think people are good or bad. In any moment of any day, we behave in ways that are judged bad or good. Usually the hardest by ourselves, but you get the picture. Maybe you could try reframing to just a day. I was a good person today. Except for that one thing and that was bad. Or I was a bad person today because I did x. If you think of yourself as a bad person, and you have since you were 8, where's the hope in that? Take good care.
Oh, I can understand. This is a long and generational thing. A lot of gaslighting to not testify from my mother who wanted to defend him because he was his father, but he also abused his own children often. Afterwards, we heard of many other children who were involved, which only exaserbates the whole family issues.
I have certainly tried to do the reframing and it can sometimes help, but in the long run it is weight of the one action - a decision and a choice, even if it is under great diress. The wonders of overthinking as well as the potentiality of multiple decision theories. Just stuff I tend to do.
Thank you for your help, I do appreciate you and your trudging forward!
Oh Matthew, I'm so sorry you have experienced so much trauma and pain. I hope your inner self will hear this and know its truth: Mistakes don't make us bad people. They make us human. (And mistakes include choices we "knowingly" made - because how can we actually know the full meaning or whole impact of our choice? Especially when we're children!)
You are a beautiful human. Please keep working on forgiving yourself. 🙏
This post made me literally LOL because I am a very intense version of this. My gosh, the amount of hours I spend rewriting conversations over and over in my head? And not even just the ones that actually occurred...I spend the most time on conversations that will most likely NEVER occur. And once that gets started it's very difficult to shut it down. Also, 99.9% of them are negative. Why don't I do this with positivity and help boost myself up??! I never envision great conversations and how those would go. At least I'm aware of all this chaos, that's something.
There's a quote attributed to a number of people, from Teddy Roosevelt to Eleanor Roosevelt to David Foster Wallace: "“You'll stop caring what people think about you when you realize how seldom they do.” Sometimes we need to be reminded of this advice.
Pretty sure I read this version in an Elinor Lipman novel years ago: People aren’t thinking about you; they’re thinking about themselves, just like you are.
This was so on the nose of how my brain thinks, that it almost was painful. I feel like after years of therapy I can say "these are the stories my brain is making up, they are not actually true". But knowing that logically does not stop those thoughts from happening, and just the awareness of the thoughts can be really draining.
Yes! I know the stories that my brain is telling me, but those stories are just another thing to overthink...so now I'm overthinking about the decision I need to make AND about the stories in my head. It's a spiral on top of a spiral unless I have a method for stopping it (I don't).
The angst of making decisions, no matter how trivial, sucks up so much energy for me. So often I don’t actually move forward because I’m overthinking every step and am caught in that endless, “What about...? What if...?”.
Maybe not all overthinking is negative or obsessive. I wonder how much of my overthinking is a deep desire to see all the aspects of a situation and problem solve.
I'm definitely an overthinker, but what has helped me use it as a strength instead of a disadvantage is learning to lean into my thoughts. Thinking about my thoughts is a way to switch from unhelpful ruminating ("I can't stop thinking about how awkward I was!") to "why does it matter to me that I felt awkward? Is awkwardness necessarily a bad thing? Is there any proof that my so called 'awkwardness' devalued the conversation?" The 5x5 rule helps a lot here - will this matter in 5 years? If not, don't spend more than 5 minutes thinking about it.
Hmm... I'm gonna steal that 5x5 rule!
I like the 5x5 rule, but with people’s attention span these days I think one could shorten that time to “will it matter in 5 days....or even 5 hours”, and not spend more than 5 seconds kicking myself in the head 😆
I've been working on this a lot. Was that awkward? Yes. Does it matter? Probably not. It's helped me to try to notice the other person might be awkward or nervous and realize how much compassion I have for them. And maybe I can feel that for myself. (I'm sure some of that is from reading Kristin Neff's work on self-compassion.)
I love that, Dawn! And isn't it amazing when people are comfortable being their authentic (sometimes awkward) selves? It's admirable! Oh, I'll have to look into her work!
In Internal Family Systems, there’s this idea that we have parts of us who are holding our deepest trauma — they’re called exiles because we exile them from consciousness. They carry our most painful feelings and beliefs, like shame and worthlessness.
When we are awkward or threatened with failure / having these bad feelings or beliefs of the exiles exposed, we have protective parts who go into overdrive, trying to keep us up and out of those bad feelings of the exiles, which exist way down below in the pit of our consciousness.
The parts of us who overthink, in IFS, are called managers. Although the overthinking is extremely painful and frustrating, it is less painful than feeling the deeper pain and shame of the exiles. Therefore, the goal of the managers is simply to keep us up in our heads and out of that deep pit of shame and pain that exists way below in the exiles.
Overthinking will never fully solve the problem of the deeper shame and pain that the exiles carry — it’s just a Band-Aid that helps us get through those patches of bad feelings, with a painful cost.
The long-term solution is to learn how to actually go to the exiles and unburden the shame and pain they carry. Then, when we do or say something weird and awkward, the exiles won’t be so vulnerable to feeling bad about themselves.
Instead of a faux pas triggering a massive spiral of self-criticism and overthinking at a 10/10, it’ll reduce over time to an 8/10, a 6/10, a 4/10. The less shame and pain the exiles carry, the less shame and pain that will rise up whenever something goes wrong in our social life. And then the less the managers have to overthink to protect us from that physical and emotional pain.
For instance, because IFS has absolutely saved my life, and truly helped me reduce the pain and shame of my exiles, I’m able to post here about it, even though I know some people absolutely will criticize me for always posting about IFS. But I am IFS! It’s what saved my life and it’s what I have to offer and I can’t show up authentically and honestly unless I show up with what I have to offer!
When people’s parts criticize me, of course, my managers and exiles feel hurt, but at this point, it’s only at like a 4/10. It is not awesome to be attacked online by strangers I don’t know, but I would rather take the risk of sharing who I really am and participating in this community than hold back what I know and be unexpressed and shut down just because some people have parts that bully other people.
I would not be able to write this post, unless I had unburdened a lot of my exiles who carry shame and the belief that I don’t have a right to show up as who I am.
The reality is that we all have a right to show up just as we are, in all our awkwardness and imperfection and indecision and humanness. We need tools to help our mind find a way to do that. For me, as my offering to the community, IFS is how I’ve learned to do that, and my wish is that I can share my massive knowledge of HOW to transform the mind with IFS in helpful ways. And if IFS is not your cup of tea, please just ignore all my posts!
This is brilliant. I follow Cheri Huber’s Zen model, where these are “voices in the head” to notice but give no power to -- and sometimes I use the enneagram to understand the voices’ dynamics to be free of them. This model is very much what I see going on (I see managers as control freaks) and very helpful to me right now. Thank you!
Thank you. This is brilliant and amazing. I did not know about exiles and managers. Do you know of any books or videos that specifically address this? Thanks so much for sharing. Your posts are great.
Yes, the guy who developed IFS, Richard Schwartz, is the best source for books. I like “Introduction to Internal Family Systems” and his book on relationships, “You’re the One You’ve Been Waiting For” as starting places.
Google “Dick Schwartz IFS” for tons of videos.
Wishing you healing on your IFS journey!
Thanks so much, Melissa. I'll take a look. Thanks for your support. I hope you keep posting and continue your path of growth.
This is amazing, thank you for sharing. I honestly hadn't heard about IFS until an early post from Chris, but it sounds so helpful!! I am glad you're at a 4/10 now. That gives me encouragement. Thank you!
You are the third person I’ve heard speak of IFS. How do I find an IFS therapist? I’ve been in talk therapy for two decades, going in circles albeit with some resolution, but I would like to get to the root of my agony of defeat. Thank you for sharing your valuable opinion.
https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners is the IFS Therapist finder. You can also use the therapist finder on Psychotherapy Today for someone in your area and use "Internal Family Systems" as the search term. Wishing you find someone great!!!
THANK YOU 😊
I've been learning over the last year that these are symptoms of trauma (at least for me). I think American society has a LOT of generational trauma that has yet to be unpacked, so it's no surprise that this pattern is so overwhelmingly common.
One strategy I use to break out of the cycle of overthinking is to ask myself, "Is this helpful? How can I spend this energy in a way that is helpful?" And then I go do yoga or some nonsense. :)
Y'all have a good day, I'm going to go think about this comment for the rest of the day. lol
So true. I think we’re all still dealing with COVID trauma as well. Masks. Events canceled. Parents and teachers having to go online. And people aren’t talking much about the trauma. We talk about COVID but society still hasn’t recognized the trauma factor.
It's true that there's not much public discourse, but I know that it's being acknowledged in some circles. Sometimes in humor through art, and sometimes just in conversations with friends. I think society is still reeling, and it will be another couple of years before people start talking about the trauma and healing. (As I recall, it was over a decade before really useful conversations about the trauma of 9/11 started happening. It was talked about, but not in useful ways.)
But it's not just COVID. I buy into the theory that there was a society-wide breakdown in the "chain" of passing down the skills to be a healthy human, probably having something to do with the industrial revolution. So with each generation, trauma just builds up and gets vomited onto the kids of the next generation. It's all been building up for all those years, and we're only now really starting to rediscover those skills (at least as a society... there have always been variations in how functional individual families might be). Reparenting yourself and breaking cycles of dysfunction is a tough thing to do in an era of world-shattering events happening every 2-3 years, so I think people are actually doing a pretty dang good job, overall.
Agh, Chris you’re inside my head too! Just yesterday I had an embarrassing encounter (okay VERY embarrassing) in the grocery store. I had just come from the dentist, spending an hour with the dental hygienist who cleaned my teeth. Very nice woman, very chatty. WEARING A MASK. Then I bumped into “a woman” in the store who said somewhat peevishly, “Don’t you know who I am?!” Uh, no. Not a clue. It was her (without a mask!). I am unable to recognize people with face masks on… and then off. I think it’s related to my ADHD. Or maybe I’m an idiot…
You're definitely not an idiot. As someone who also struggles with that, I'm always struck by how important it is to people to be recognized. Or to remember their names. It's so low on my importance scale, but I know for many it is very meaningful. And I can't recognize people with and without baseball hats. Add in a mask and they might as well be total strangers.
Oh my goodness yes!
Oh man this is not on you!!!!! It’s not your responsibility be able to see through a mask — you’re not Superman!
This makes me think of a hilarious incident that just happened to me yesterday — I had two people named James who were supposed to come to my house, one on Tuesday, one Wednesday. So this James calls me Tuesday night to say he needs to cancel for Wednesday. But I’m like, we were supposed to meet today. He’s like I don’t think so. I’m like yeah I had it in my calendar and I’m busy all day tomorrow, so it’s definitely today. But thanks for calling me. I appreciate it!
I’m so convincing that he actually believes me, that he missed his Tuesday appointment with me.
I fail to realize 100% that he is the Wednesday James, not the Tuesday James! So I text the Wednesday James a reminder for our appointment and then this morning I get a text back that says — but I called you yesterday to cancel this appointment!
What are the chances of two James on two adjoining days? What the hell! So then I have to text him back and say, oh, my God, I thought you were the other James! Epically ridiculous. He texted me back to say it was a classic misunderstanding. And that is the appropriate response – not some snarky “Don’t you know who I am.” It’s too bad this woman in the mask didn’t have a better sense of humor about being human so that she could just laugh with you about it instead of being all miffed.
For what it’s worth, I’m enjoying the humor of it, and her parts who clearly have some issues with not being recognized need some therapy!
Actually, she was pretty nice about it after I explained the problem. But this makes a better story for Chris… 😷
LOL!
Nope, not an idiot! I'm not the best with names (or faces) either. My worst encounter was at a concert several years ago. I recognized an old friend of my wife's. I am, by no means, a social person, so the fact I found myself walking up to him was a miracle.
We greeted one another and then I said, "I'm sorry, remind me your name again?" He stared at me blankly before saying, "We share the same name. My name is Matt."
Now THAT made me feel like an idiot, hahaha...
some people look ENTIRELY different wearing a mask! this is so understandable. we started going to go to the same restaurant on repeat during peak covid (outdoor dining) times and got to know all of the wait staff. we went away for a few months and came back after the mask mandate had been lifted and it was CRAZY to me how different everyone looked! so anyway, sharing this just to say... I don't think you're an idiot at all. <3
Oh gosh, I still think about the awkward thing I once said in 2003. Yes to all of this.
Reading this felt like you have private access to my thoughts ;) It's comforting to know we're not alone. This is exactly how I've self-sabotaged the most, especially when it comes to being visible online. I was scarily close to not hit post on this comment... It shows up for me in writing, I start a sentence or two and then... crickets ;)
My best way so far to move beyond it is to just push the boat out. And tell myself, I give myself permission for this post/line/thing to kind of suck.
I could have written this post! For example, on the weekend I hosted a small gathering with guided conversation (something I'm drawn to doing, and apparently quite good at.) The guests all said how much they enjoyed it BUT, after they all left, I could hardly be in my own mind because the thoughts were so intrusive. Ugh!
I don't overthink. But people always tell me that I do. What they mean is that I think too much, and since for them, thinking too much gives them headaches and usually means worrying, they see overthinking as something negative.
I have stopped caring about what other people think about me a long time ago, most of the time. There is one thing that gets me: if they think that what I said was dumb.
Actually, I need my wife to do some of this worrisome thinking for me. She tells me when I require a haircut or need to trim my beard. She also tells me when I said something awkward and need to apologize. I have externalized my worries, one could say, but it's not that easy.
I have little social skills. Typically, I am nice, but things happen.
Having the ability to think about these things or even notice it is a valuable skill. I could use some of that. But then, overthinkers probably could use some of my trait of not caring.
For me, overthinking is an abusive term. It should be called overworrying. Noise like this disallows and suppresses thinking. Worries "culturally appropriate" the term for something beautiful, our ability to think thoroughly.
There is no way we can overthink. There is no thinking too much. If anything, we suffer from thinking too little, on average. And maybe, the cure would be to start to truly think and deprive your head from all this emptiness and spare time it fills with worries.
Agree
OMG, this is exactly how my mind loops over and over again!😅
I’m busy writing a guide on when overthinking is not overthinking (at least to an autistic mind like mine).
I often think it’s a lazy gaslighting insult used by others who don’t have the patience or interest to hear people out.
- sometimes we need to verbally process something to understand it better. This sounds like “over thinking” but it’s just thinking. Ideally for this it’s great to have a person who gets you or I also know people who can record voice notes to themselves to get through this
- sometimes we need to weigh up the different aspects of an issue before deciding
- sometimes it’s analytical thinking or deductive thinking
Overthinking as a negative, to me, that we prefer to interrupt is either
- if it’s spiralling into a thought spiral that’s leading to increasing anxiety. Interrupting this is easier said than done buts it’s helped me to recognise that this is really the only “overthinking” I tolerate (well ignore but can’t stop!)
- if it’s about decision making but the person already basically knows what they want to do and understands the risks, here just delaying the decision because they’re scared or there’s some external difficulty. This is what I see in coaching a lot.
Yes! I was going to jump in on point 2, so I’ll add in here. Overthinking is not overthinking (for me) when it’s directed in some way - I’ll use the word “reflection”. Consider: what went wrong?; what went right?; how could I have done better?; what can I learn from this experience? What could I do next time (if that’s not covered under how I could do better, or it’s a more appropriate way of working it). This gives me tools to use in similar situations in the future, because thinking on my feet is not a skill I possess. The reflection process, which might be overthinking to someone without my trauma history, is hugely valuable for me in meeting the rest of life as it comes at me.
Oh yes, I am breathing so that means I am overthinking. There is a reason to it though, but that is tied into my trauma and the cycles that play out in my life daily. I am not a good person, I understand this and I am aware of it. However, I also know I am my own worst critic and very down on many things I do. While this is not healthy in the slightest, it also shows me where I am being overcritical and where I am being too harsh on things I did.
I mean, everyone remembers that one time in 3rd grade and that other time in some random Summer, right?
That dreaded spotlight effect in action and in deeds.
How did you come to understand that you're "not a good person?"
My actions. I try everything in my life to counterbalance the bad actions, but I also know at the core of my being I come from an "evil" stock - horrid things this family has done and horrible things I have done to not counter it, such as not testifying against my grandfather when I was 8 for CSA charges and thus letting him off the hook to go damage more lives.
No matter what good I do, I can't counter that. No matter what bad I do, I am not as bad as my grandfather - but I know I can easily become him if I don't pay attention.
What if your 8 year old was doing the best they could? I know I'm just offering an opinion here, and it may be unwanted, but I'm trudging forward anyway. I don't think people are good or bad. In any moment of any day, we behave in ways that are judged bad or good. Usually the hardest by ourselves, but you get the picture. Maybe you could try reframing to just a day. I was a good person today. Except for that one thing and that was bad. Or I was a bad person today because I did x. If you think of yourself as a bad person, and you have since you were 8, where's the hope in that? Take good care.
Oh, I can understand. This is a long and generational thing. A lot of gaslighting to not testify from my mother who wanted to defend him because he was his father, but he also abused his own children often. Afterwards, we heard of many other children who were involved, which only exaserbates the whole family issues.
I have certainly tried to do the reframing and it can sometimes help, but in the long run it is weight of the one action - a decision and a choice, even if it is under great diress. The wonders of overthinking as well as the potentiality of multiple decision theories. Just stuff I tend to do.
Thank you for your help, I do appreciate you and your trudging forward!
Oh Matthew, I'm so sorry you have experienced so much trauma and pain. I hope your inner self will hear this and know its truth: Mistakes don't make us bad people. They make us human. (And mistakes include choices we "knowingly" made - because how can we actually know the full meaning or whole impact of our choice? Especially when we're children!)
You are a beautiful human. Please keep working on forgiving yourself. 🙏
This post made me literally LOL because I am a very intense version of this. My gosh, the amount of hours I spend rewriting conversations over and over in my head? And not even just the ones that actually occurred...I spend the most time on conversations that will most likely NEVER occur. And once that gets started it's very difficult to shut it down. Also, 99.9% of them are negative. Why don't I do this with positivity and help boost myself up??! I never envision great conversations and how those would go. At least I'm aware of all this chaos, that's something.
There's a quote attributed to a number of people, from Teddy Roosevelt to Eleanor Roosevelt to David Foster Wallace: "“You'll stop caring what people think about you when you realize how seldom they do.” Sometimes we need to be reminded of this advice.
Pretty sure I read this version in an Elinor Lipman novel years ago: People aren’t thinking about you; they’re thinking about themselves, just like you are.
Indeed! I’ve recently come to realize others are rarely dwelling on anything I said. Easier said than done. But I’m working on it.
This was so on the nose of how my brain thinks, that it almost was painful. I feel like after years of therapy I can say "these are the stories my brain is making up, they are not actually true". But knowing that logically does not stop those thoughts from happening, and just the awareness of the thoughts can be really draining.
Yes! I know the stories that my brain is telling me, but those stories are just another thing to overthink...so now I'm overthinking about the decision I need to make AND about the stories in my head. It's a spiral on top of a spiral unless I have a method for stopping it (I don't).
The angst of making decisions, no matter how trivial, sucks up so much energy for me. So often I don’t actually move forward because I’m overthinking every step and am caught in that endless, “What about...? What if...?”.
Maybe not all overthinking is negative or obsessive. I wonder how much of my overthinking is a deep desire to see all the aspects of a situation and problem solve.
https://rainforestmind.com/2023/02/08/are-you-overthinking-or-are-they-just-underthinking/